Sephiroth Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 That's a big IF though...plus when healthy, I'm not so sure he's really anything to covet, given that we have money tied up in Vernon and elsewhere. If you project out what his sack totals 7.0 would have been IF he had stayed healthy, we're talking 9 - 9.5. In terms of sack leaders, that places him around ~#17 - 20 among all leaders. That's fair, but while his sack totals are respectable, he's arguably the best DE against the run in the league, not just a situational pass rusher type. It's not sexy for the stat sheet, but that dude was pivotal for the run D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Okwara is decent. Enough to work with for now. OO needs to prove himself. I think not re-signing JPP leaves a gap, but I'm not sure I huge one. Will need to be address in FA or draft. I'd rather we spend that same money on Chandler Jones (if we're going to spend it on a DE), for instance. Otherwise, target a mid level free agent DE and/or early round pick. Not sure many good options will be there at #23 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 This. Vernon is clearly the best Dline player on the team but JPP is an easy second by far. However I don't think JPP is 15-20 million a season type of a player. I think in all honesty he should be signed on to a 8-9 million a year type of thing. Anything more I say let him walk and draft one of the crazy talented DEs in this years draft in round one. Yep... either that or sign a crazy good DE that is worth the $15M per year... assuming there's one out there... Like I mentioned before, I wouldn't be surprised if the Giants go DE 1st round this year.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boohyah Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 He doesnt an improved contract from last year. Frankly he still owes this team some goodwill with his bullshit. He is talented, he does make us better overall, but if he does not take a one year conract for same money, then we move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigblue25 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Yeah I would rather have a cheaper/younger rookie option. He was good in 12 games, but still only 7 sacks I think they can get that production from a rookie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Yeah I would rather have a cheaper/younger rookie option. He was good in 12 games, but still only 7 sacks I think they can get that production from a rookie Big hopes on Romeo Okwara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Fwiw... the entire D's sack totals were down at the start of the season as they were trying to gel so JPP's sack number being unimpressive makes sense. That being said... I'm MUCH more concerned with bringing Hankins back than JPP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Big hopes on Romeo Okwara My bet is Okwara can produce 5-6 sacks to JPPs 7 in 12 games next year. Are you willing to spend 16 million more of our 32 million in cap room for those two extra sacks? Make a run at Chandler Jones if you can. Plus, invest in the OL. We can find stopgap solutions for JPP in free agency or the draft. He's not with 16 million per year, on an 80 billion dollar contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 With Vernon, I don't see the need to resign JPP. It's a luxury to have two pass rushers of that caliber in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. P Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 With Vernon, I don't see the need to resign JPP. It's a luxury to have two pass rushers of that caliber in the first place. That's how I feel but with replace Vernon with Snacks and JPP with Hankins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Here are the moves I would make: Re-signings: - LB Keenan Robinson - 4 years ~$18-20mm. Low signing bonus in case of injury. - DT John Hankins - 5 years ~$40-45mm (he's going to command this kind of contract on the open market) - K Robbie Gould - 2 years ~$4mm - LB Kelvin Sheppard - 1 year, vet minimum (decent depth for cheap) - CB Coty Sensabaugh - 1 year, vet minimum (decent depth for cheap) - S Leon Hall - 1 year, vet minimum (decent depth for cheap) - LS DeOssie - 2 years - QB Josh Johnson - 1 year, vet minimum FA and Draft - The way I see it, we have room for let's call it 2 major FA moves, 2 mid range FA moves, and 3 top draft picks (rounds one - three), so a total of seven slots. The seven slots should be a mix of the following, in priority order: 1 - OL 1 2 - OL 2 3 - WR 4 - DE 5 - TE 6 - RB 7 - LB (assuming we resign Robinson and Sheppard) Also cut JT Thomas to save $3mm...I don't know why we haven't already. Maybe waiting to see if we can bring back Robinson and Sheppard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. P Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Here are the moves I would make: Re-signings: - LB Keenan Robinson - 4 years ~$18-20mm. Low signing bonus in case of injury. - DT John Hankins - 5 years ~$40-45mm (he's going to command this kind of contract on the open market) - K Robbie Gould - 2 years ~$4mm - LB Kelvin Sheppard - 1 year, vet minimum (decent depth for cheap) - CB Coty Sensabaugh - 1 year, vet minimum (decent depth for cheap) - S Leon Hall - 1 year, vet minimum (decent depth for cheap) - LS DeOssie - 2 years - QB Josh Johnson - 1 year, vet minimum FA and Draft - The way I see it, we have room for let's call it 2 major FA moves, 2 mid range FA moves, and 3 top draft picks (rounds one - three), so a total of seven slots. The seven slots should be a mix of the following, in priority order: 1 - OL 1 2 - OL 2 3 - WR 4 - DE 5 - TE 6 - RB 7 - LB (assuming we resign Robinson and Sheppard) Also cut JT Thomas to save $3mm...I don't know why we haven't already. Maybe waiting to see if we can bring back Robinson and Sheppard? We can't cut Thomas until he passes a physical I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 It may be a luxury to have two high quality defensive ends, but given his off the field issues and physical limitations, I really doubt we could improve the team more by allocating resources that would go to JPP to other positions, and especially not other defensive ends. There's only one JPP. When he's on the field, he's more impactful than Vernon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 It may be a luxury to have two high quality defensive ends, but given his off the field issues and physical limitations, I really doubt we could improve the team more by allocating resources that would go to JPP to other positions, and especially not other defensive ends. There's only one JPP. When he's on the field, he's more impactful than Vernon. The way I see it, if we resign JPP for that amount, it basically means we forfeit the remaining necessary cap space needed to fix the OL this year, which means we barely improve on offense in general, and that's the best case scenario... so we're right back to where we started as a Wild-Card contender. Didn't we go 3-1 in the regular season without JPP, including beating Dallas? I'll miss him, but he's not vital. The OL needs to be the priority investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 It may be a luxury to have two high quality defensive ends, but given his off the field issues and physical limitations, I really doubt we could improve the team more by allocating resources that would go to JPP to other positions, and especially not other defensive ends. There's only one JPP. When he's on the field, he's more impactful than Vernon. And I see it the other way around. Vernon has shown he's the best DE on the team and why he's getting paid like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Big hopes on Romeo Okwara Dude is good.. but I'm not sure we can go into the season with him being the starter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 I'm probably being greedy at this point but I'd love to sign Calais Campbell if we let Hankins go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightFire Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Dude is good.. but I'm not sure we can go into the season with him being the starter... I think the Giants can and should. As Vendetta pointed out paying JPP is going to handcuff the team and he's not worth what some team is going to pay him for 8 games a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Dude is good.. but I'm not sure we can go into the season with him being the starter... I go back to the production vs value argument....JPP produced 7 sacks in ~12 games. I bet Okwara could do let's say 5 in the same span. Are you willing to pay 16 million dollars (of our ~32 million in cap space) for the extra 2 or 3 sacks? And that payoff isn't guaranteed because the guy is oft-injured. To me, given the risk %, the 16 million has a net utility value of 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Also who knows, maybe a guy we draft or bring in via FA makes up for the remaining sacks, if not outproduces. For much less... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Yeah, its all relative to the $$$$. But I find it hard to believe that there is an equal or better DE on the market, let alone a rookie. If JPP walks, the Giants are going to have to get a whole lot better at a few other positions, mostly LB, to make up the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 The way I see it, if we resign JPP for that amount, it basically means we forfeit the remaining necessary cap space needed to fix the OL this year, which means we barely improve on offense in general, and that's the best case scenario... so we're right back to where we started as a Wild-Card contender. Didn't we go 3-1 in the regular season without JPP, including beating Dallas? I'll miss him, but he's not vital. The OL needs to be the priority investment. Agree on OL, but who is available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueInCanada Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Also who knows, maybe a guy we draft or bring in via FA makes up for the remaining sacks, if not outproduces. For much less... Honestly I want the Gints to make a push for a guy like Jonathan Allen. The guy is going to be a stud DE in the NFL and is exactly the player to replace JPP, not to mention he already knows the position better than JPP. He's a leader and the piece that Spags will want on the Dline to get back to the Nascar package days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 And I see it the other way around. Vernon has shown he's the best DE on the team and why he's getting paid like it. Oh I agree that Vernon is a better overall player. He's really, really good. JPP can be exploited mentally (although that is not as true as it once was), he gets winded, he's more often hurt. But he's got a few things that Vernon will never have too. I haven't reviewed the cap, but I think JPP is worth a top ten contract. Maybe more. Might be a total pipe dream to keep both guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BronxRik Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Let JPP go. Pick up Mario Williams who Miami just let go. He's gotta be cheaper, and he's got all 10 fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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