Nas Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/vacchiano-giants-wrong-gilbride-scapegoat-article-1.1563933 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Where's the "beating off" emoticon? Though I do agree that Sullivan isn't the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 Where's the "beating off" emoticon? Though I do agree that Sullivan isn't the answer. The article brings up some pretty good points though. What leaves me scratching my head is how the fuck did we go into the season with THAT offensive line?... I mean didn't TC or Gilly notice sum sing wong? Maybe our DLine weren't practicing hard which contributed to the OLine not being scrutinized more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 In the other thread we were talking about how coaches know better than us...this is true. However, as a fan and even more so as an analyst, you have to know that coaches can do things to mask personnel weaknesses and alleviate things such as "pressure". Facing the pass rush does not mean constantly having Eli hold the ball forever and toss a prayer 30 yards downfield on 3rd and 2. Or how about a red zone draw play that is as good as giving up? I see Gilbride as completely incapable of making such adjustments. That's the biggest reason I, and a lot of you guys here, want him gone in the first place. His situational playcalling is atrocious. He seems to completely lack a feel for the trends and flow of a game...as the game unfolds (said best in another article I read, he seemed to not even be "watching the game" at times). His red zone offense is just disgusting and has been disgusting for many years. In my opinion, despite gaudy numbers (which, I think belie the nature of just how bad his offense has been at actually scoring these past several years....that is, unless Victor Cruz turns a 15 yard pass into a 60+ yard touchdown or Hakeem Nicks pulls down a back shoulder fade....things that were glaringly absent this season). So if you want to deride the players, as this article clearly is insinuating, let's not forget that great INDIVIDUAL plays and defenses that were decidedly very stingy come playoff time are what won this team Super Bowls. Not masterful offensive philosophy and a playcalling. That's how I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 In the other thread we were talking about how coaches know better than us...this is true. However, as a fan and even more so as an analyst, you have to know that coaches can do things to mask personnel weaknesses and alleviate things such as "pressure". Facing the pass rush does not mean constantly having Eli hold the ball forever and toss a prayer 30 yards downfield on 3rd and 2. Or how about a red zone draw play that is as good as giving up? I see Gilbride as completely incapable of making such adjustments. That's the biggest reason I, and a lot of you guys here, want him gone in the first place. His situational playcalling is atrocious. He seems to completely lack a feel for the trends and flow of a game...as the game unfolds (said best in another article I read, he seemed to not even be "watching the game" at times). His red zone offense is just disgusting and has been disgusting for many years. In my opinion, despite gaudy numbers (which, I think belie the nature of just how bad his offense has been at actually scoring these past several years....that is, unless Victor Cruz turns a 15 yard pass into a 60+ yard touchdown or Hakeem Nicks pulls down a back shoulder fade....things that were glaringly absent this season). So if you want to deride the players, as this article clearly is insinuating, let's not forget that great INDIVIDUAL plays and defenses that were decidedly very stingy come playoff time are what won this team Super Bowls. Not masterful offensive philosophy and a playcalling. That's how I feel. Agreed. Scheming is only one part of being a good coach... in-game adjustments are another part of that. For instance, when Eli has been sacked six times on his first 16 plays (Carolina), it's a good idea to not wait three more weeks to go to a short passing game. Then when the short passing game works for a drive and results in a score, you don't revert back to what was getting your franchise QB killed. This isn't an isolated incident... there's a seven-year track record of this kind of shit. Gilly has to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 Agreed. Scheming is only one part of being a good coach... in-game adjustments are another part of that. For instance, when Eli has been sacked six times on his first 16 plays (Carolina), it's a good idea to not wait three more weeks to go to a short passing game. Then when the short passing game works for a drive and results in a score, you don't revert back to what was getting your franchise QB killed. This isn't an isolated incident... there's a seven-year track record of this kind of shit. Gilly has to go. Agreed with you and Drizzle's comments however... I can now point to Reese and wonder could he have pulled some kind of a trade early on in the season to shore up the OL? Also, the lack of a stud TE really hurt this offense... again on the GM. I haven't turned into a sudden supporter of Gilly but this article really tempered my anger at him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMFP Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Vacchiano makes a strong argument that the main issue is a poor roster, which falls on Reese, and not Gilbride. However, playcalling was a major problem this season.....the Giants season ended when Gilbride failed to exploit a Dallas run defense that was in tatters......Giants were ripping over 7, 8, 9 yards per carry, and yet Gilbride still decided to stick with a passing attack that was totally out of sync. Mara's comments about Jernigan were also spot on.....and it reminded me of 2012, when in another huge game, Gilbride opted to feature Kregg Lumpkin over David Wilson. There have been many other times over the years where Gilbride's gameplan seems to defy game conditions. Yes, when everything is working perfectly, and every player is on the same page, and when the protection can hold up, and when Eli is accurate, Gilbride's system looks fantastic. But as Mike Tyson once said, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. All season, teams have been punching this offense in the face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmenroc Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Vacchiano makes a strong argument that the main issue is a poor roster, which falls on Reese, and not Gilbride. However, playcalling was a major problem this season.....the Giants season ended when Gilbride failed to exploit a Dallas run defense that was in tatters......Giants were ripping over 7, 8, 9 yards per carry, and yet Gilbride still decided to stick with a passing attack that was totally out of sync. Mara's comments about Jernigan were also spot on.....and it reminded me of 2012, when in another huge game, Gilbride opted to feature Kregg Lumpkin over David Wilson. There have been many other times over the years where Gilbride's gameplan seems to defy game conditions. Yes, when everything is working perfectly, and every player is on the same page, and when the protection can hold up, and when Eli is accurate, Gilbride's system looks fantastic. But as Mike Tyson once said, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. All season, teams have been punching this offense in the face. Not to mention, a good coordinator can get the most out of a subpar roster...see the Patriots...how many of their castoffs go on to be great elsewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lughead Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Not to mention, a good coordinator can get the most out of a subpar roster...see the Patriots...how many of their castoffs go on to be great elsewhere? and how many cast offs have done well there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treehugger Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Vacchiano makes a strong argument that the main issue is a poor roster, which falls on Reese, and not Gilbride. It's practically the same roster that won a Superbowl in 2011. How is that a "strong argument"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastershake Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 OC's, I have to believe, have an influence on personnel decisions, drafts etc. I think Gilbride bears some of the blame for not putting together a sound O-Line this past 1-2 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 i don't even read the local beat writers anymore. they clearly play favorites and they love tc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK-Giantsfan Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I agree with quite a lot of what Ralph V says here ..............the real, immediate urgency is fixing the O line via FA and the Draft ..............( which is ' broken ' more due to the negligence of JR than anyone else ) .........if Gilbride gets vociferous loyal support from TC and Eli.... ...then maybe he gets 1 more year to prove himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 In the other thread we were talking about how coaches know better than us...this is true. However, as a fan and even more so as an analyst, you have to know that coaches can do things to mask personnel weaknesses and alleviate things such as "pressure". Facing the pass rush does not mean constantly having Eli hold the ball forever and toss a prayer 30 yards downfield on 3rd and 2. Or how about a red zone draw play that is as good as giving up? I see Gilbride as completely incapable of making such adjustments. That's the biggest reason I, and a lot of you guys here, want him gone in the first place. His situational playcalling is atrocious. He seems to completely lack a feel for the trends and flow of a game...as the game unfolds (said best in another article I read, he seemed to not even be "watching the game" at times). His red zone offense is just disgusting and has been disgusting for many years. In my opinion, despite gaudy numbers (which, I think belie the nature of just how bad his offense has been at actually scoring these past several years....that is, unless Victor Cruz turns a 15 yard pass into a 60+ yard touchdown or Hakeem Nicks pulls down a back shoulder fade....things that were glaringly absent this season). So if you want to deride the players, as this article clearly is insinuating, let's not forget that great INDIVIDUAL plays and defenses that were decidedly very stingy come playoff time are what won this team Super Bowls. Not masterful offensive philosophy and a playcalling. That's how I feel. Ba bump...AGREE Completely... This article is an apologia for Saint Gilbride... FUCK HIM... as many NFL coaches said (off of the record as the NFL is a gentlemen's club) before Saint Gilbride was hired was that the Giants would win despite Saint Gilbride...not because of him. That last Brokeback game would have been grounds for summary execution if I was the owner. Brown was leaving cleat tracks on the chests of the Brokebacks...but Saint Gilbride starting calling a chuck fest and the rest is history... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 It's practically the same roster that won a Superbowl in 2011. How is that a "strong argument"? This... tired of the circling of the wagons that often happens when a coach is about to be let go... look he had his run...time for Saint Gilbride to mosey... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 i don't even read the local beat writers anymore. they clearly play favorites and they love tc This... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 Ba bump...AGREE Completely... This article is an apologia for Saint Gilbride... FUCK HIM... as many NFL coaches said (off of the record as the NFL is a gentlemen's club) before Saint Gilbride was hired was that the Giants would win despite Saint Gilbride...not because of him. That last Brokeback game would have been grounds for summary execution if I was the owner. Brown was leaving cleat tracks on the chests of the Brokebacks...but Saint Gilbride starting calling a chuck fest and the rest is history... And who was the cheerleader who didn't step in? Look, I too was fed up with Gilbride but there were times when our O was tremendous... truth is the collapse of the O line and lack of the running game hurt us badly... For as harsh as I've been on Gillbride, I wish him well... and I thank him for being part of the Giants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK-Giantsfan Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Though I do agree that Sullivan isn't the answer. Sullivan doesn't excite me one bit ! ..........especially after the dismal showing of Tampa Bay offensively this season ........id rather have Kubiak to be honest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazedDogs Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Sullivan doesn't excite me one bit ! ..........especially after the dismal showing of Tampa Bay offensively this season ........id rather have Kubiak to be honest Tampa has no talent and had Bush League Schiano for a head coach. I'm not holding that against Sullivan. I think lost in all this Killdrive, 'we need a new system!' stuff, is that the system is really Tom Coughlin's. There are run and shoot aspects of it - the WR route tree, for example - but the underlying system isn't going to change no matter who is brought in as OC, including those pass route concepts. I'm just hoping whoever it is has a fresh take on it and can smooth out some of the operational and communication problems. I also think they need to factor in the lack of practice time. That makes it a different game out there, it takes some of the precision on it. Going forward, I don't think they need to alter the 'system' per say, but they sure need to pay closer attention to what the offense is and is not capable of running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Guess Ralph wants to play devil's advocate on this one. Problems on offense didn't start this season, they have been around longer. Last season the biggest problem wasn't the offensive line, it was the defensive line and that is what they fixed last season. This season Giants can fix the offensive line and considering the number of free agents this off-season, we're looking at a different 2014 team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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