Our D Line...

[Nas]

A question for the experts mainly but for everyone really... Kyle, Jim, Fish, BB25...

 

Given our D Line moves and pay no attention to draft possibilities, am I right to think at least on paper our D Line is better than last year's?

[Sephiroth]

I'd have to say yes. At this stage in their respective careers, I think Kiwi is an upgrade from Osi to spell Tuck and JPP, and Jenkins is a clear upgrade over Canty.

[Nas]

I'd have to say yes. At this stage in their respective careers, I think Kiwi is an upgrade from Osi to spell Tuck and JPP, and Jenkins is a clear upgrade over Canty.

 

I like this Peterson dude too... I think me maybe the bigger catch... dude came of a dismantled and mentally exhausted Eagle's team... who's the DT who deserted us for the Redskins?

[Bigblue25]

 

 

I like this Peterson dude too... I think me maybe the bigger catch... dude came of a dismantled and mentally exhausted Eagle's team... who's the DT who deserted us for the Redskins?

 

Coefield?

[Allstarjim]

Nas,

 

I think the signing of Jenkins was a good one, but I'm not on the bandwagon that he will be better than Canty from a pass rush or run stuffing perspective. Jenkins has been a good interior pass rusher in his career, and he is maybe an upgrade against the run, but I'm of the camp that Canty was an underrated player here. Sure, he got hurt a lot, but consider that both players had 26 tackles last season. Canty got his in 9 games, Jenkins played all 16.

 

From a pass rushing perspective, I don't know that we are better, it remains to be seen. A lot of that has to do with Tuck and JPP. Tuck has to return to form, something he has vowed to do. JPP showed some immaturity last season, and even though he still did some special things only a talent like JPP can do, it was far less than what his potential demands that he can do. JPP has to be motivated, and he has to dominate at the peak of his game, not just settle for being a little better than everyone else because he's so naturally gifted.

 

I think anyone who knows what we are going to get out of Kiwi next year is lying or guessing. I'm not sold on Kiwi being a better pass rusher than Osi, I do think he is a better all-around DE, though.

 

Shaun Rogers is a very large man, he is 34 years old, though. But if he can play, and play close to his career norm, he helps a lot both from a run stuffing and interior pass rush perspective. But I also wouldn't count on him making it through to week 1 healthy, but we can hope. Patterson is a nice depth signing, nothing more.

 

I expect Linval to play at his usual level, and I think he's a very good player.

 

We could not get the Redskins offense off the field in the 4th quarter last year because of Alfred Morris and RGIII in the that 2nd game, they killed us with first downs and killed the clock. So we HAVE to be stouter against the run next year.

 

Hopefully, Austin will turn his career around this season. We should know by week 1 if he is going to be a player the Giants can count on in that defensive line rotation.

 

So, if you're wanting to see us be tougher in the front four, maybe we are... but cross your fingers that Shaun Rogers stays healthy and can contribute. Because the defense will look a lot better if he is in there on 1st and 2nd downs blowing up that center and guard. And cross your fingers for Tuck and JPP to have big rebound years, too.

[BlueInCanada]

I would say more talented overall but I still have my doubts on how they will perform.

 

Tuck is getting older and if his injuries act up again then you know he wont be effective at all, not to mention being in a new position this year.

 

JPP is basically in his career year, to see if he can return to his 16 sack form or if he is going to become the next Osi 2.0 and disappear every year when we need him most. Add to the fact he is switching sides with Tuck, maybe he doesn't handle the transition well, but frankly I was getting sick of JPP running 30 yards out of the play, maybe with Osi gone he can focus on his game more.

 

Kiwi is a good player and an overall upgrade to Osi but still he's been back and fourth between LB and DE who knows how he will perform, not to mention his career is plagued with injuries and missed game time.

 

Patterson/Jenkins are going to bring much needed rotation and depth to the DT position so hopefully we can stop the run better.

 

Honestly we have some better players along the D-line but I wouldn't expect to see the Giants pass rush from '07 out there or anything close to it.

[Bigblue25]

I like our current d-line, I don't even think we look at DE or DT in the draft at least not early. Jenkins will be good, we are carrying six dt's, be interesting to see who gets cut. I like Patterson too, he was a former 1st rounder and he fits better here then he did with Philly.

[Nas]

Coefield?

 

Yea. Too optimistic?

[Nas]

Nas,

 

I think the signing of Jenkins was a good one, but I'm not on the bandwagon that he will be better than Canty from a pass rush or run stuffing perspective. Jenkins has been a good interior pass rusher in his career, and he is maybe an upgrade against the run, but I'm of the camp that Canty was an underrated player here. Sure, he got hurt a lot, but consider that both players had 26 tackles last season. Canty got his in 9 games, Jenkins played all 16.

 

From a pass rushing perspective, I don't know that we are better, it remains to be seen. A lot of that has to do with Tuck and JPP. Tuck has to return to form, something he has vowed to do. JPP showed some immaturity last season, and even though he still did some special things only a talent like JPP can do, it was far less than what his potential demands that he can do. JPP has to be motivated, and he has to dominate at the peak of his game, not just settle for being a little better than everyone else because he's so naturally gifted.

 

I think anyone who knows what we are going to get out of Kiwi next year is lying or guessing. I'm not sold on Kiwi being a better pass rusher than Osi, I do think he is a better all-around DE, though.

 

Shaun Rogers is a very large man, he is 34 years old, though. But if he can play, and play close to his career norm, he helps a lot both from a run stuffing and interior pass rush perspective. But I also wouldn't count on him making it through to week 1 healthy, but we can hope. Patterson is a nice depth signing, nothing more.

 

I expect Linval to play at his usual level, and I think he's a very good player.

 

We could not get the Redskins offense off the field in the 4th quarter last year because of Alfred Morris and RGIII in the that 2nd game, they killed us with first downs and killed the clock. So we HAVE to be stouter against the run next year.

 

Hopefully, Austin will turn his career around this season. We should know by week 1 if he is going to be a player the Giants can count on in that defensive line rotation.

 

So, if you're wanting to see us be tougher in the front four, maybe we are... but cross your fingers that Shaun Rogers stays healthy and can contribute. Because the defense will look a lot better if he is in there on 1st and 2nd downs blowing up that center and guard. And cross your fingers for Tuck and JPP to have big rebound years, too.

 

Gotta love your optimism

 

[Allstarjim]

Was that sarcasm? Because I didn't think my post was very optimistic. I think BiC has almost an identical take on the D-Line as I do.

[Nas]

Was that sarcasm? Because I didn't think my post was very optimistic. I think BiC has almost an identical take on the D-Line as I do.

 

Yes Jim lol... you and BIC put a damper on my "assessment" lol... all good brother

[KiLLaKyLe]

I agree with the guys above. I think the difference in the two defensive lines is very minimal. Losing Osi certainly won't help the pass rush, and we have to see how well Kiwi does rushing the passer full time again. This is a contract year for Tuck, so we should see him improve over last year. As for DT, I think Canty was more well-rounded than Jenkins, but Jenkins is the better pass rusher. I really like the Patterson pickup, as long as he can return to his pre-surgery form. I think the line will do a better job stopping the run with the improved depth at DT and adding Kiwi to DE, but I think they need to bring in another pass rusher (Tank Carradine!) to replenish the pass rush.

[gmenroc]

I like our d-line's potential...I like it a lot. Whether or not they live up to it is another story. They certainly didn't last year.

 

I think it all hinges on Tuck. Tuck needs to demand a double team from the offense. The interior of our d-line is decent, but they're not good enough to stop the run if it's 3 O-linemen on 2 DTs. I think if Kiwi moves back down to DE, then our run defense does improve given he's more disciplined in his pass rush than was Osi. As for JPP, teams will either double him, or chip him with a TE...he needs to continue to improve and to fight off complacency that seemed to set in last year.

 

It's for this reason I think DT or DE is our first round pick. A DT that can get pressure in the middle would help our DEs tremendously. It's like when a D-Line helps the secondary by getting pressure on the QB, the interior can help the ends and vice versa.

[Nas]

I agree with the guys above. I think the difference in the two defensive lines is very minimal. Losing Osi certainly won't help the pass rush, and we have to see how well Kiwi does rushing the passer full time again. This is a contract year for Tuck, so we should see him improve over last year. As for DT, I think Canty was more well-rounded than Jenkins, but Jenkins is the better pass rusher. I really like the Patterson pickup, as long as he can return to his pre-surgery form. I think the line will do a better job stopping the run with the improved depth at DT and adding Kiwi to DE, but I think they need to bring in another pass rusher (Tank Carradine!) to replenish the pass rush.

 

Canty regressed a great deal last year... we were getting gassed unable to stop the run to a ridiculous level. Even if Jenkins is on pare with Canty's talent.. or lack thereof, at least he's a lot cheaper.

[KiLLaKyLe]

Canty regressed a great deal last year... we were getting gassed unable to stop the run to a ridiculous level. Even if Jenkins is on pare with Canty's talent.. or lack thereof, at least he's a lot cheaper.

 

I actually disagree. Canty looked like the most consistent DL when he played last year. He did a solid job both vs. the run and the pass. The thing about Jenkins is that he is more one-dimensional than Canty. Jenkins is a much better pass rusher, but a much worse run defender. I'll be interested to see how Jenkins does vs. the run this year. I think it's funny that both Canty and Jenkins signed 3 year, $8m deals. Shows how close they are in terms of talent.

[Nas]

I actually disagree. Canty looked like the most consistent DL when he played last year. He did a solid job both vs. the run and the pass. The thing about Jenkins is that he is more one-dimensional than Canty. Jenkins is a much better pass rusher, but a much worse run defender. I'll be interested to see how Jenkins does vs. the run this year. I think it's funny that both Canty and Jenkins signed 3 year, $8m deals. Shows how close they are in terms of talent.

 

We couldn't stop the run last year.. down the middle included. Canty wasn't worth what he was making and cutting him was the right thing to do... At least we get to save some cap money.