It's going to get worse before it gets better

[Bigblue25]

I agree that the defense is what concerns me the most.

 

This team has won 2 superbowls since 2007....that's a tremendous accomplishment. But I think the Giants really need to study how Belichick runs his teams.....outside of Tom Brady, there is nobody in that locker room who cannot be cut or traded.

 

And that's how the Giants need to approach this offseason.

 

 

Agree, I look at the Son in law and go wtf happened, two years ago he was one of the best G' in the NFL, is it my father in law is the coach, so I no longer have to try hard? Did Tom tell him, I want my grandkids to have a father, tone it down, don't let football be everything to you. I have no fucking idea! He is still young too.

[JackStroud]

I think after reading this post, everyone is to blame and nobody is to blame.

 

One thing is for sure if the Giants win a SB and you give Coughlin a contract extension you automatically get an under-motivated team.

 

Fewell is an enigma.......he ocassionaly dials up a good game like the San Fran Game, then he goes back to his bend but not break nonsense

[RandolphScott]

Storm, I think the thing about Barden and his break out game against the Panthers...well...I mean...that defensive back was playing like 10 yards off the line of scrimmage on him. It's almost as if when he made that bogus offensive pass interference against the Eagles this year, the coaching staff benched him.

 

I would guess the thing about him is that he's 6'6. Can't get off the line of scrimmage on a jam (Amani Toomer couldn't do that early in his career, took karate lessons and became really, really good) and plays smaller to his size. Doesn't help that he was drafted after Plax shot himself and everyone said he was a "Plax clone" just because he was tall.

[*SDMF*]

Hoping for anything other than a loss is silly, I think. Might as well get a better draft pick than be 9-7 and still miss the playoffs.

 

Storm dude, your fucked up.

[JMFP]

I agree with most everything that's wrong. But I don't see your argument that its going to get worse before it gets better. I don't think you even referred to that part. I see Eli getting better, nNicks getting healthier, addressing the RB issues, and finally getting some decent LBs ( god they're sickening).

But this is by no means a rebuilding. 6 weeks ago we were the best team in the NFL. It's going to get better.

 

Sorry, I was already running a little long, and didn't want to add to my wall of text.

 

My point is this: The Giants are facing a wave where guys from the original 2007 miracle run are now approaching the point of diminishing returns.....Chris Snee, David Diehl, Ahmad Bradshaw, Justin Tuck, Osi, Cory Webster....that's 6 guys right there.

 

From there, you've got a few guys that were added between 2007 and 2011 that have been fucked over by injuries.....T2, Kenny Phillips, Hakeem Nicks.

 

We have other guys who have likely hit their ceiling....Boley, Kiwi, JPP, Beatty, Boothe, Canty, Baas, Eli, Cruz, Rolle......these guys can still play, but I don't know if we'll see anything beyond what we have.

 

And we have other guys that are only starting because we've got nobody else to take their place right now......Tynes, Blackburn, J. Williams.

 

Long story short, we've got a ton of guys that are breaking down....others that will be there soon, and some that are borderline starters even on their best days.

 

Again, we got 2 Super Bowls out of this personnel.....I'm not bitching, but rather, just thinking they had best start reloading very soon, while they still have QB to keep them in contention.

 

So, even if Reese lands stud replacements, they are going to take some time to by NFL ready. So I see a massive rebuilding period ahead.

[BronxRik]

We have other guys who have likely hit their ceiling....Boley, Kiwi, JPP, Beatty, Boothe, Canty, Baas, Eli, Cruz, Rolle......these guys can still play, but I don't know if we'll see anything beyond what we have.

 

You've been hittin' the Eggnog a bit heavy, haven't you?

[Storm]

Storm, I think the thing about Barden and his break out game against the Panthers...well...I mean...that defensive back was playing like 10 yards off the line of scrimmage on him. It's almost as if when he made that bogus offensive pass interference against the Eagles this year, the coaching staff benched him.

 

I would guess the thing about him is that he's 6'6. Can't get off the line of scrimmage on a jam (Amani Toomer couldn't do that early in his career, took karate lessons and became really, really good) and plays smaller to his size. Doesn't help that he was drafted after Plax shot himself and everyone said he was a "Plax clone" just because he was tall.

 

Yeah, I can't quite recall how they were covering him, I know he had a big game....I guess I would have just liked to see him on the field more before claiming bust status....the guy could have been a solid receiver for us and I do believe Eli plays better when he has 5 WRs out there getting open (plus, there wasn't a soul getting open the second half of the year....which I think explains away a lot of Eli forcing the ball---at least I hope it does). That seems obvious, but like you said, I don't think Barden really saw the field at all after that Philly incident which was totally a good play by him, actually. Jernigan has actually flashed this season, too but changing the corps up a little bit mid-game and seeing what they can do is apparently above the scope of Gilbride's offensive playcalling....

[Storm]

Storm dude, your fucked up.

 

To be honest, I'd like to see all the starters benched and see what the rest of the squad can do. David Wilson receives 44 touches....Jernigan, Hixon, Barden at WR, shit David Carr at QB....waterboy at Guard for Chris Snee.....etc.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

Yeah, I can't quite recall how they were covering him, I know he had a big game....I guess I would have just liked to see him on the field more before claiming bust status....the guy could have been a solid receiver for us and I do believe Eli plays better when he has 5 WRs out there getting open (plus, there wasn't a soul getting open the second half of the year....which I think explains away a lot of Eli forcing the ball---at least I hope it does). That seems obvious, but like you said, I don't think Barden really saw the field at all after that Philly incident which was totally a good play by him, actually. Jernigan has actually flashed this season, too but changing the corps up a little bit mid-game and seeing what they can do is apparently above the scope of Gilbride's offensive playcalling....

 

Coughlin can be irrational at times...remember when he went crazy on Kiwi when he was a rookie...and then a veteran player draws a couple of personal fouls and he says nothing to him... sometimes its the enigma that is Coughlin.

[*SDMF*]

To be honest, I'd like to see all the starters benched and see what the rest of the squad can do. David Wilson receives 44 touches....Jernigan, Hixon, Barden at WR, shit David Carr at QB....waterboy at Guard for Chris Snee.....etc.

 

Your the kind of guy that woud be the player in the locker room to say,"I have a ring, I can dial it in from here the years over." And Im the guy that would fuck you up.

[JackStroud]

Storm, let it go man...........Merry Christmas

 

There will be other campaigns.....who knows maybe the football Gods will let us get inthe playoffs yet

[Storm]

Your the kind of guy that woud be the player in the locker room to say,"I have a ring, I can dial it in from here the years over." And Im the guy that would fuck you up.

 

You are so off-base here. Quite obviously the Giants completely gave up 2 weeks ago. It isn't a matter of "saying" anything. It's WHAT HAPPENED. The Giants are done. They aren't going to make the playoffs. LOL. So you can sit there and try to persuade the powers that be to literally shit a miracle for you, or you can be a little realistic and realize that the attitude you describe is EXACTLY the attitude the players have already. They 1. won't beat the Eagles and 2. they will come out unprepared and lifeless. As a fan and observer, it is completely within my rights to be embarrassed and ashamed of my team. I would rather them come out and get destroyed again so they feel the same sense of shame and embarrassment, get a better draft pick, and in all likelihood shake up the coordinator position so we don't have to go through 8 more years of 6-2, 2-6.

 

And it's "you're". Or, "you are".

[JMFP]

You've been hittin' the Eggnog a bit heavy, haven't you?

 

No, not yet.....but I do enjoy my So.Co. and eggnog....thanks for reminding me.

 

Regarding Eli.....I'm a big fan....I'm just saying that last year was probably his high water mark.

[fringe]

Sorry, I was already running a little long, and didn't want to add to my wall of text.

 

My point is this: The Giants are facing a wave where guys from the original 2007 miracle run are now approaching the point of diminishing returns.....Chris Snee, David Diehl, Ahmad Bradshaw, Justin Tuck, Osi, Cory Webster....that's 6 guys right there.

 

From there, you've got a few guys that were added between 2007 and 2011 that have been fucked over by injuries.....T2, Kenny Phillips, Hakeem Nicks.

 

We have other guys who have likely hit their ceiling....Boley, Kiwi, JPP, Beatty, Boothe, Canty, Baas, Eli, Cruz, Rolle......these guys can still play, but I don't know if we'll see anything beyond what we have.

 

And we have other guys that are only starting because we've got nobody else to take their place right now......Tynes, Blackburn, J. Williams.

 

Long story short, we've got a ton of guys that are breaking down....others that will be there soon, and some that are borderline starters even on their best days.

 

Again, we got 2 Super Bowls out of this personnel.....I'm not bitching, but rather, just thinking they had best start reloading very soon, while they still have QB to keep them in contention.

 

So, even if Reese lands stud replacements, they are going to take some time to by NFL ready. So I see a massive rebuilding period ahead.

I think if you have a QB, you\re not rebuilding.

[Storm]

Storm, let it go man...........Merry Christmas

 

There will be other campaigns.....who knows maybe the football Gods will let us get inthe playoffs yet

 

Huh? I think you mean, "SDMF, let it go man, it's one man's opinion, stop being a douche....oh wait, you're constantly a douche in every section and thread you ever post in".

 

But Merry Christmas to you, too, Jack! Thanks! My sister got me a sweet Giants hoodie! Pops got me a nice pair of what I would describe as receiving gloves for normal folks....they are meant just to keep your hands warm, but I guarantee I'd drop less passes than Victor Cruz with them on.

[Herc]

I was the first to point out Nicks being soft... He does need to use his size. You maybe right on KP... not sure who we have out there.

 

nicks is 6'1 208 pounds and he's not soft at all. he's out there playing with a fucked up MCL. there's no superbowl run without him. 2nd mvp after eli last postseason

 

the way our offense has performed this year is proof that nicks makes our offense go. how's victor cruz doing this year without all that single coverage that nicks gets him?

 

this guy has bailed us out of SO MANY gilbride inspired stalled drives on 3rd down in the past using his size on back shoulder throws

 

the real mistake was not just sending him for MCL surgery. he would've been back by week 10

[Storm]

nicks is 6'1 208 pounds and he's not soft at all. he's out there playing with a fucked up MCL.

 

the way our offense has performed this year is proof that nicks makes our offense go. how's victor cruz doing this year without all that single coverage that nicks gets him?

 

this guy has bailed us out of SO MANY gilbride inspired stalled drives on 3rd down in the past using his size on back shoulder throws

 

the real mistake was not just sending him for MCL surgery. he would've been back by week 10

 

Apparently over 80 receptions, 1000 yards, and like 9 touchdowns. I thought he was having a poor season, too. He's not, he's just disappeared the last 3 weeks.

[Herc]

Apparently over 80 receptions, 1000 yards, and like 9 touchdowns. I thought he was having a poor season, too. He's not, he's just disappeared the last 3 weeks.

 

he had 1500 yards last year

[Storm]

he had 1500 yards last year

 

True, but that has a lot to do with him not being able to turn 7 yard passes into 99 yard touchdowns this season...which was a whole lot of luck last year, I guess....

[fishgutmartyr]

Sorry, I was already running a little long, and didn't want to add to my wall of text.

 

My point is this: The Giants are facing a wave where guys from the original 2007 miracle run are now approaching the point of diminishing returns.....Chris Snee, David Diehl, Ahmad Bradshaw, Justin Tuck, Osi, Cory Webster....that's 6 guys right there.

 

Not sure I agree on Snee and Webster. Might have peaked, but still think they have things to offer. Tuck might be better served with reduced playing time--and keep him the hell on the outside on 3rd down!

 

 

From there, you've got a few guys that were added between 2007 and 2011 that have been fucked over by injuries.....T2, Kenny Phillips, Hakeem Nicks.

 

Nicks doesn't belong on this list. He usually misses a game or two during the season due to little injuries, not like this season. And if people were willing to deal with that with Shockey, then you have to deal with it with Nicks, who is vastly more important to this offense than Shockey ever was.

 

We have other guys who have likely hit their ceiling....Boley, Kiwi, JPP, Beatty, Boothe, Canty, Baas, Eli, Cruz, Rolle......these guys can still play, but I don't know if we'll see anything beyond what we have.

Hitting a ceiling is not the same as declining. And some of these names don't belong here, either.

 

JPP--He's in what, his second season? Drafted raw? And he's already peaked? Don't think so...

Cruz--Decent season, without Nicks. And his second year, too.

Kiwi--Playing out of his natural position. Can't tell if he's peaked.

Beatty, Boothe, Canty, Rolle--Maybe they have hit their ceiling. But that's a decent ceiling, and there is no sign of decline on any of these players. Rolle has proven to be an important player on this team.

Eli--disagree. His game is all about experience, not athleticism. His passing game will improve towards the end of his career, ala Phil Simms; so long as he's healthy.

 

And we have other guys that are only starting because we've got nobody else to take their place right now......Tynes, Blackburn, J. Williams.

 

Tynes is right up there in field goal percentage this season. I don't know what more you guys expect from him. Fifty-yarders are not gimmies for anyone.

 

 

Long story short, we've got a ton of guys that are breaking down....others that will be there soon, and some that are borderline starters even on their best days.

 

Again, we got 2 Super Bowls out of this personnel.....I'm not bitching, but rather, just thinking they had best start reloading very soon, while they still have QB to keep them in contention.

 

So, even if Reese lands stud replacements, they are going to take some time to by NFL ready. So I see a massive rebuilding period ahead.

 

We rebuilt after 2003. It took 2 offseasons with a lesser GM, and that team was in FAR worse shape than this team. We're looking at a worst-case scenario of 8-8 after a brutal schedule where we've beaten as many good teams as we've lost to. We have players that might already be ready for next year: Brewer, Hosely, Brown, Hill, Randle, and possibly Robinson. We have guys playing now with their first season just winding up. We're nowhere near the disaster you're foreseeing.

 

We need to get rid of either Brown or Bradshaw--we can't keep two injury-prone running backs. We need to shore-up the OLine. And rennovate that defense--maybe that's just a change in philosophy.

[Storm]

It's not just the games Nicks misses, it's the games he plays in where he's completely ineffective and worthless because he's trying to play injured. I think it'd be more like 5+ games a season where he technically isn't very effective. 1/3rd of the season.

[Herc]

It's not just the games Nicks misses, it's the games he plays in where he's completely ineffective and worthless because he's trying to play injured. I think it'd be more like 5+ games a season where he technically isn't very effective. 1/3rd of the season.

 

that's just this season though

[Herc]

True, but that has a lot to do with him not being able to turn 7 yard passes into 99 yard touchdowns this season...which was a whole lot of luck last year, I guess....

 

i think some of it is luck but i think a lot of it is more defenders being around him when he catches the ball. that's the nicks-is-playing-on-one-leg factor

[Herc]

Not sure I agree on Snee and Webster. Might have peaked, but still think they have things to offer. Tuck might be better served with reduced playing time--and keep him the hell on the outside on 3rd down!

 

 

 

Nicks doesn't belong on this list. He usually misses a game or two during the season due to little injuries, not like this season. And if people were willing to deal with that with Shockey, then you have to deal with it with Nicks, who is vastly more important to this offense than Shockey ever was.

 

 

Hitting a ceiling is not the same as declining. And some of these names don't belong here, either.

 

JPP--He's in what, his second season? Drafted raw? And he's already peaked? Don't think so...

Cruz--Decent season, without Nicks. And his second year, too.

Kiwi--Playing out of his natural position. Can't tell if he's peaked.

Beatty, Boothe, Canty, Rolle--Maybe they have hit their ceiling. But that's a decent ceiling, and there is no sign of decline on any of these players. Rolle has proven to be an important player on this team.

Eli--disagree. His game is all about experience, not athleticism. His passing game will improve towards the end of his career, ala Phil Simms; so long as he's healthy.

 

 

 

Tynes is right up there in field goal percentage this season. I don't know what more you guys expect from him. Fifty-yarders are not gimmies for anyone.

 

 

 

We rebuilt after 2003. It took 2 offseasons with a lesser GM, and that team was in FAR worse shape than this team. We're looking at a worst-case scenario of 8-8 after a brutal schedule where we've beaten as many good teams as we've lost to. We have players that might already be ready for next year: Brewer, Hosely, Brown, Hill, Randle, and possibly Robinson. We have guys playing now with their first season just winding up. We're nowhere near the disaster you're foreseeing.

 

We need to get rid of either Brown or Bradshaw--we can't keep two injury-prone running backs. We need to shore-up the OLine. And rennovate that defense--maybe that's just a change in philosophy.

 

good stuff fish, and yeah nicks only missed 6 games in 3 seasons before this one. 3 of those games were that flukey compartment syndrome thing he had in his leg too

[fishgutmartyr]

It's not just the games Nicks misses, it's the games he plays in where he's completely ineffective and worthless because he's trying to play injured. I think it'd be more like 5+ games a season where he technically isn't very effective. 1/3rd of the season.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/NickHa01.htm

 

the two seasons before this one he had over 1000 yards receiving. He's scoring through his career at a td every other game, including this abomination of a season.

 

His other 2/3's of a year must be pretty damn spiffy, then. I used "spiffy."