Does it really matter??

[Storm]

Actually, the stats for Nelson and Cruz are nearly identical. And Nelson has had more games. Give me a break, Jim. I'm not reading any farther past your first paragraph.

 

Give Cruz a QB like Aaron Rodgers and he'd be destroying Nelson.

[Storm]

Actually, the rest of your post is spot on. It definitely isn't hyperbole to say that him being one of the best QBs in NFL history is happening before your eyes.

 

But I'd rather have Jennings over Nicks. He's WAY more consistent. Jennings comes to every game and rarely drops passes. It'd be unheard of to see him drop perfectly thrown long balls like Nicks does.

 

I figured it was a book long "disagree with Storm's correct observations", again.

[Storm]

They both average over 17 yards per catch so I doubt the YAC is that different and even if it is, they are both averaging over 17 yards a catch. If anything, they are extremely similar players.

[Storm]

Victor Cruz

[Storm]

286 YAC on 44 receptions for Nelson.

 

6.5 YAC average for Nelson.

 

Going by the above link, 6.7 for Cruz.

 

WRONG.

 

So Jim, you're trading away 2 offensive skill position players, and one I am making be Cruz....who is the other one that you would like to gift to the best team in football?

[ksm7]

Rodgers is in an absolute zone right now, but yeah, it's like declaring a baseball player "better than Babe Ruth" after one tremendous season.

 

Absolutely no perspective these days.

 

And frankly, I wouldn't put him in Montana's class at this point.....can't put a stat on how cool Montana was in huge games.

 

first off, the dog would never ordain any QB as the greatest of all time without seeing the complete body of work, but the dog finds your statement above fascinating based on your passion for elevating little eli to elite status so quickly...and this just in, rodgers numbers since the moment he took over as starter have been outstanding...it is not just one tremendous season...

[Allstarjim]

Nelson is not the top target in that offense like Cruz is in ours. Not saying Cruz is better than Nicks, but Cruz is benefiting from Nicks being doubled most of the year. Can't do that in the Packers' offense. And Rodgers really spreads it around. Your stats' arguments really don't tell the story for these reasons among others. Just watching Nelson, he is a better player than Cruz. I like Cruz. But Nelson could be most teams' #1 receiver. Cruz can't do that. Cruz is a very good role player, he can't be THE GUY. I know a lot of people want to anoint Cruz as this Pro Bowl caliber player... he's just not. He's a shift little receiver, and he's an asset to our team. But give me Ted Ginn Jr and I have the same player with the same stats if Eli is throwing him the ball. You can give me Harry Douglas, or Preston Parker, or any number of similar players and I'll show you a guy that can replace Victor Cruz tomorrow.

 

Since you like stats, check out Nelson's reception to target ratio. One of the best in the NFL. You throw it to him, and he's going to catch it. The numbers' argument just doesn't hold water. As many good plays as Cruz makes, he makes the bone-headed ones too. Nelson is just very polished.

 

And yes, I would trade Cruz AND Manningham for Nelson in a heartbeat. In a nanosecond. For people that actually WATCH the Packers play, they would laugh at the notion that Cruz is as good.

[Storm]

Give me a break.

 

Jennings gets doubled just as much as Nicks.

 

Ted Ginn and Cruz, that's funny.

 

I've watched every Packers game this season.

 

They are nearly carbon copies, slot wide receivers with little to no expectations and nearly identical stats and skill sets.

[Steitzenhaus]

Well, Jennings is 5 years older than Nicks at 28. Nicks hasn't exploded like I expected him to this year but he's played well and his presence demands extra attention. If you look around the league, you would be hard pressed to find receivers that possess the combination of youth and upside that Nicks has.

[BlueInCanada]

Give me a break.

 

Jennings gets doubled just as much as Nicks.

 

Ted Ginn and Cruz, that's funny.

 

I've watched every Packers game this season.

 

They are nearly carbon copies, slot wide receivers with little to no expectations and nearly identical stats and skill sets.

 

I'd take the Packers WRs over ours.

 

With the exception of Nicks.

 

And I have watched Packers games as well.

[Virginia Giant]

Aaron Rodgers is unreal, but for my money, Peyton is the best I've ever seen, with Rodgers closing the gap.

[Storm]

I'd take the Packers WRs over ours.

 

With the exception of Nicks.

 

And I have watched Packers games as well.

 

Why?

 

James Jones < Mario Manningham

 

Cruz = Nelson

 

Jennings > Nicks, like I've said.

 

Put Aaron Rodgers on this team and think about the kind of numbers Manningham and Cruz would put up.

[Sephiroth]

At the end of the day, I think the question should be this:

 

If Aaron Rodgers has a Theisman-esque, career ending injury in his next game, is he still in the discussion for "greatest of all time?"

 

My guess is no. It's the same reason why nobody talks about Terrell Davis in the best backs of all time. You need longevity as well as good seasons to be in that discussion. Rodgers has the good seasons, now he needs the longevity.

[ksm7]

Nelson is not the top target in that offense like Cruz is in ours. Not saying Cruz is better than Nicks, but Cruz is benefiting from Nicks being doubled most of the year. Can't do that in the Packers' offense. And Rodgers really spreads it around. Your stats' arguments really don't tell the story for these reasons among others. Just watching Nelson, he is a better player than Cruz. I like Cruz. But Nelson could be most teams' #1 receiver. Cruz can't do that. Cruz is a very good role player, he can't be THE GUY. I know a lot of people want to anoint Cruz as this Pro Bowl caliber player... he's just not. He's a shift little receiver, and he's an asset to our team. But give me Ted Ginn Jr and I have the same player with the same stats if Eli is throwing him the ball. You can give me Harry Douglas, or Preston Parker, or any number of similar players and I'll show you a guy that can replace Victor Cruz tomorrow.

 

Since you like stats, check out Nelson's reception to target ratio. One of the best in the NFL. You throw it to him, and he's going to catch it. The numbers' argument just doesn't hold water. As many good plays as Cruz makes, he makes the bone-headed ones too. Nelson is just very polished.

 

And yes, I would trade Cruz AND Manningham for Nelson in a heartbeat. In a nanosecond. For people that actually WATCH the Packers play, they would laugh at the notion that Cruz is as good.

 

the dog thinks this a big leap to make. nelson benefits from having multiple weapons at the othe skill positions to create favorable match-ups as a slot receiver. go through the league team by team and there aren't a ton of teams that he would step onto and be the number 1 receiver. he also benefits from having a QB who puts the ball right where it has to be 95% of the time, which is why his reception to target ratio is high. let tim tebow throw him the ball and see that percentage go down. nelson is a good receiver, but hard to say he is a number one receiver when looking at players like fitzgerald, bryant, c johnson, a johnson, marshall, wayne, wallace, white, colston, britt, holmes/burress, jackson/maclin, jennings, smith, nicks...etc...(that's half the league there). right now he is matched up against safeties or 2nd and 3rd corners...let him beat the number 1 corner on each team week in and week out and see where he is...

[NightFire]

At the end of the day, I think the question should be this:

 

If Aaron Rodgers has a Theisman-esque, career ending injury in his next game, is he still in the discussion for "greatest of all time?"

 

My guess is no. It's the same reason why nobody talks about Terrell Davis in the best backs of all time. You need longevity as well as good seasons to be in that discussion. Rodgers has the good seasons, now he needs the longevity.

 

And Rodgers has a history of being injured so it's a possibility he runs into trouble again. I think the reason Favre is considered so good is because he played so many damn games. You play that many games I would hope you break or come close to some records.

[JMFP]

the dog thinks this a big leap to make. nelson benefits from having multiple weapons at the othe skill positions to create favorable match-ups as a slot receiver. go through the league team by team and there aren't a ton of teams that he would step onto and be the number 1 receiver. he also benefits from having a QB who puts the ball right where it has to be 95% of the time, which is why his reception to target ratio is high. let tim tebow throw him the ball and see that percentage go down. nelson is a good receiver, but hard to say he is a number one receiver when looking at players like fitzgerald, bryant, c johnson, a johnson, marshall, wayne, wallace, white, colston, britt, holmes/burress, jackson/maclin, jennings, smith, nicks...etc...(that's half the league there). right now he is matched up against safeties or 2nd and 3rd corners...let him beat the number 1 corner on each team week in and week out and see where he is...

 

That's a great point......elite QBs like Rodgers and Eli will often make good receivers look great.

[ksm7]

That's a great point......elite QBs like Rodgers and Eli will often make good receivers look great.

 

well, the dog certainly applauds your tenacity, but mentioning rodgers and little eli in the same category is just plain off...little eli is the intelligent computer nerd that was voted most likely to succeed in your high school year book and who went on to land a solid job for a decent company....rodgers is bill gates...

[JMFP]

well, the dog certainly applauds your tenacity, but mentioning rodgers and little eli in the same category is just plain off...little eli is the intelligent computer nerd that was voted most likely to succeed in your high school year book and who went on to land a solid job for a decent company....rodgers is bill gates...

 

 

All joking aside, did you know....

 

Manning needs 48 yards and two touchdown passes to become the fifth quarterback in history with seven consecutive seasons with at least 3,000 yards and 20 touchdown passes. The others already in that group: Peyton Manning, Brett Favre,Dan Marino and Drew Brees.

 

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/giants/ballard_is_too_tough_to_stay_down_Af1MGb6aEaFc4YDJZTOxbO#ixzz1f1IHXeoc

[hlb37]

....rodgers is bill gates...

 

 

really?

 

Aaron Rodgers is a conniving bully, devoid of any honor or loyalty who routinely ignores any rules or ethical compunctions that stand between him and what he wants?

[Storm]

really?

 

Aaron Rodgers is a conniving bully, devoid of any honor or loyalty who routinely ignores any rules or ethical compunctions that stand between him and what he wants?

 

He is a big ham, though....managed to get into every one of those captain photos when he was backup

 

 

heh

[Allstarjim]

1. Eli has been very accurate this year. Cruz benefits from that almost as much as Nelson does with Rodgers' accuracy.

 

2. Cruz gets a TON more targets than Nelson.

 

3. Cruz makes great plays followed by terrible drops. It happens every game, and regardless of the sexy stats Cruz puts up, the snaps where he drops the ball, those count as well, and they very often hurt the team badly.

 

4. Nelson simply does more with fewer opportunities.

 

5. Greg Jennings does NOT get doubled nearly as much as Nicks, it just doesn't happen. Cruz by far benefits from Nicks pulling attention away from the middle of the field than Nelson does.

 

Cruz is a very good player. But Nelson is a beast.

[Storm]

Ya, okay. Just like blitzing Brees wouldn't lead to huge gains by Sproles and Brees beating the blitz because we suck at it.

 

Completely spot on.

[Allstarjim]

Ya, okay. Just like blitzing Brees wouldn't lead to huge gains by Sproles and Brees beating the blitz because we suck at it.

 

Completely spot on.

 

Dude.... WHAT?!

[Allstarjim]

To Storm, Vince Young and Drew Brees... apples to apples.

 

Secondly, they couldn't stop Brees when they didn't blitz. They actually did a little better when they did blitz on some plays... but again, this team's linebackers can't cover. And Fewell still sucks.

[Storm]

To Storm, Vince Young and Drew Brees... apples to apples.

 

Secondly, they couldn't stop Brees when they didn't blitz. They actually did a little better when they did blitz on some plays... but again, this team's linebackers can't cover. And Fewell still sucks.

 

They did better? At least they weren't giving up 25+ yard completions when they hung back and actually held them to a field goal the first drive. I saw the blitz work once and it only worked because Brees was slightly off target down the far sideline. I can't wait until you go back and rewatch this game and see all the big gains they got because we sent 6 guys who still didn't even come close to getting there.