Sephiroth Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I'm not sure if you read Ernie Accorsi's book, the GM...but in it he writes about how the Ole Miss staff asks too much of Eli Manning. They asked him to line everyone up, make the checks accordingly, etc. He goes "this is a guy who you just have to let play." Then we go and do a complete 180 and do the thing he writes against him doing. I'd love to see him in a system like Pittsburgh or San Diego when all the QB does is point at who the blizters are. Amazing, right? Gilbride isn't a horrible coordinator but his schemes are way too complex, in my opinion. The Eli haters would have their heads explode if someone like a Jay Cutler or a Phillip Rivers was trying to get their guys lined up before the snap under Gilly. Please, please, please let Al Davis take him off our hands... I'd love to see what Eli could do in a more natural system without 15 pre-snap reads and adjustments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Amazing, right? Gilbride isn't a horrible coordinator but his schemes are way too complex, in my opinion. The Eli haters would have their heads explode if someone like a Jay Cutler or a Phillip Rivers was trying to get their guys lined up before the snap under Gilly. Please, please, please let Al Davis take him off our hands... I'd love to see what Eli could do in a more natural system without 15 pre-snap reads and adjustments. don't you think coughlin has a say in that? maybe a little? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMFP Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 don't you think coughlin has a say in that? maybe a little? Excellent point....and something that needs to change next season. Honestly, I can't recall a single no-huddle drive all season. There are times when Gilbride's offense looks unstoppable....they methodically just trample defenses. But that "methodical" nature can be part of the problem sometimes, because if you stay in it, you can't seize and/or stop huge momentum swings. The Philly game is a perfect example....it was like watching the orchestra play on the deck of the Titanic. Gilbride is like a very good chess player.....but the problem there is that eventually, he runs up against another good chess player that knows all his openings. There are times when the offense just needs a kick in the ass, and the best way is to get people up to the line and just fire off the snap. There are times when the offensive line is just dying to hit people....and then we go with the Killdrive Shuttle Launch Offense. T-30, 29, 28......4, 3, 2,.....hike. Some of Eli's best moments have come when he is playing by the seat of his pants.....and that didn't factor into the playbook this season, at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treehugger Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 There are times when Gilbride's offense looks unstoppable....they methodically just trample defenses. Both of our co-ordinators look good when things run smoothly, and credit to them for that, but they both have trouble adjusting their schemes when things aren't going to plan. Both need to improve on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Both of our co-ordinators look good when things run smoothly, and credit to them for that, but they both have trouble adjusting their schemes when things aren't going to plan. Both need to improve on that. Adjustments aren't as easy to make on the fly. Once you have a game plan, there's only so much you can do. Case in point: New England yesterday. The shots on the Patriots bench showed a lot of confusion and stress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest StrahansGap Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Just because Eli is the best QB we've had since Kennel, Brown, Hoss, Collins and all the other rejects, doesn't mean we should be satisfied with him now. This is the entire point. Management blew their load on Eli after the Superbowl win. Why does Eli get a pass all the time? Because of one Superbowl win? I love this franchise, and I love the Mara's. I understand the loyalty here. What would people say if the Mara's said "OK Eli, we appreciate the ring but we're going to let you go because you suck now". I understand it. But the entire franchise is starting to suffer because of this loyalty. Much like how the Yankees suffered by staying loyal to Joe Torre in his last few seasons there. Sooner or later you're going to have to pull the plug. If Eli doesn't step up and be a vocal leader of this team next year and cut down on those turnovers and stop his "aww shucks" attitude and show some heart and pride (like the other QB that plays in the Meadowlands), they should start thinking of some alternatives. There are about 9-10 QB's in the NFL right now that I would rather have. Sorry, I never liked the guy and I never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Don't remember reading any of these posts in 2008 or 2009. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMFP Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Just because Eli is the best QB we've had since Kennel, Brown, Hoss, Collins and all the other rejects, doesn't mean we should be satisfied with him now. This is the entire point. Management blew their load on Eli after the Superbowl win. Why does Eli get a pass all the time? Because of one Superbowl win? I love this franchise, and I love the Mara's. I understand the loyalty here. What would people say if the Mara's said "OK Eli, we appreciate the ring but we're going to let you go because you suck now". I understand it. But the entire franchise is starting to suffer because of this loyalty. Much like how the Yankees suffered by staying loyal to Joe Torre in his last few seasons there. Sooner or later you're going to have to pull the plug. If Eli doesn't step up and be a vocal leader of this team next year and cut down on those turnovers and stop his "aww shucks" attitude and show some heart and pride (like the other QB that plays in the Meadowlands), they should start thinking of some alternatives. There are about 9-10 QB's in the NFL right now that I would rather have. Sorry, I never liked the guy and I never will. If your criticism of Eli is going to be based on a criticism of Joe Torre, then you've really lost me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest StrahansGap Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Don't remember reading any of these posts in 2008 or 2009. I never had to post anything about Eli in 08 or 09. I'm like the Ravens fan who appreciates Trent Dilfer but knows deep inside that DEFENSE was the real reason they won a ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Just because Eli is the best QB we've had since Kennel, Brown, Hoss, Collins and all the other rejects, doesn't mean we should be satisfied with him now. This is the entire point. Management blew their load on Eli after the Superbowl win. Why does Eli get a pass all the time? Because of one Superbowl win? I love this franchise, and I love the Mara's. I understand the loyalty here. What would people say if the Mara's said "OK Eli, we appreciate the ring but we're going to let you go because you suck now". I understand it. But the entire franchise is starting to suffer because of this loyalty. Much like how the Yankees suffered by staying loyal to Joe Torre in his last few seasons there. Sooner or later you're going to have to pull the plug. If Eli doesn't step up and be a vocal leader of this team next year and cut down on those turnovers and stop his "aww shucks" attitude and show some heart and pride (like the other QB that plays in the Meadowlands), they should start thinking of some alternatives. There are about 9-10 QB's in the NFL right now that I would rather have. Sorry, I never liked the guy and I never will. But that's the thing... hardly any of us think Eli "sucks"... the argument is whether he's elite or not. Eli had a good season with the fuck up of outrageously high INTs... so we're going to judge his entire career based on the one stat? Eli's contract is on par with other contracts... how many QBs of his caliber or better have signed for less money since Eli got his contract? Rodgers is under contract but wait till that contract is up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest StrahansGap Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 If your criticism of Eli is going to be based on a criticism of Joe Torre, then you've really lost me. Read it again in context. I'm not comparing Torre to Eli. It's about the negative effects of too much loyalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I never had to post anything about Eli in 08 or 09. I'm like the Ravens fan who appreciates Trent Dilfer but knows deep inside that DEFENSE was the real reason they won a ring. Oh, you didn't post anything in 2008 or 2009 cause he was playing well? The guy has a bad year and you wanna shit can him? You can't pick and chose what years you want to support the man. I don't remember Justin Tuck, Strahan, Osi or Pierce leading the team to score the winning touchdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I never had to post anything about Eli in 08 or 09. I'm like the Ravens fan who appreciates Trent Dilfer but knows deep inside that DEFENSE was the real reason they won a ring. Maybe Defense was the reason we defeated the Patriots but didn't Plax and Eli put on a show in GB? and Didn't we score two TDs in that SB in the 4th quarter? And speaking of Defense it's the reason we lost at least half of our games this season... with the flop against the Eagles in the last 8 minutes and continuing the entire game vs GB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I think that can be said about every QB in the league... what QB thrives without an O-Line? I think Eli is better than average.. a little more than slightly. Has he been inconsistent.. yes. Aaron Rodgers, Michael Vick, even Matt Cassel (who is NOT better than Manning) do pretty well with worse offensive lines than ours.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 It just sounds like Mets fans who wanted to get rid of David Wright after his poor year in 2009. He had a down year, it happens...Peyton has had an off year in his career..every athlete does. It's an outlier...if it happens again..then I will be inclined to agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Aaron Rodgers, Michael Vick, even Matt Cassel (who is NOT better than Manning) do pretty well with worse offensive lines than ours.... The Chiefs line is pretty underrated. Brian Waters is a very good guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 But that's the thing... hardly any of us think Eli "sucks"... the argument is whether he's elite or not. Eli had a good season with the fuck up of outrageously high INTs... so we're going to judge his entire career based on the one stat? Eli's contract is on par with other contracts... how many QBs of his caliber or better have signed for less money since Eli got his contract? Rodgers is under contract but wait till that contract is up. And boneheaded fumbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest StrahansGap Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 It just sounds like Mets fans who wanted to get rid of David Wright after his poor year in 2009. He had a down year, it happens...Peyton has had an off year in his career..every athlete does. It's an outlier...if it happens again..then I will be inclined to agree with you. This isn't a knee-jerk reaction from me. Of course there have been times in the last 3 seasons where Eli looks like the best QB on earth. But they are few and far between...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 This isn't a knee-jerk reaction from me. Of course there have been times in the last 3 seasons where Eli looks like the best QB on earth. But they are few and far between...... You said it yourself...you had no reason to bitch about Manning in 2008 or 2009....soooooooo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 The Chiefs line is pretty underrated. Brian Waters is a very good guard. He's pretty up there in age though, isn't he? Kind of like Kareem or O'hara for us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 He's pretty up there in age though, isn't he? Kind of like Kareem or O'hara for us? Yeah, but he's more like Kareem in that he was actually really, really good this year. O'Hara fucking sucks. I wish we had Braden Albert as our left tackle too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Also...who would you want to replace Manning with? I'm just curious is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest StrahansGap Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 You said it yourself...you had no reason to bitch about Manning in 2008 or 2009....soooooooo? Remember my Eli post in the beginning of this season? You and BlueinCanada jumped all over me for bagging on Eli. Now both of you seem to be changing your tune. Especially BlueinCanada. Look at his posts in the Aaron Rogers thread on GD page. He was bashing the shit out of me now he's all over Eli too. Even you were a staunch defender of Eli until now. You still support him but not as much. I had no reason to bitch about Eli in 08 and 09 because I still supported him too. I said to myself that he's better than most QB's in the league. But since the middle of 08, it's been a steady decline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest StrahansGap Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Also...who would you want to replace Manning with? I'm just curious is all. Unrealistically: brady peyton rodgers brees ben rivers palmer ryan bradford (because of his age) cutler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Remember my Eli post in the beginning of this season? You and BlueinCanada jumped all over me for bagging on Eli. Now both of you seem to be changing your tune. Especially BlueinCanada. Look at his posts in the Aaron Rogers thread on GD page. He was bashing the shit out of me now he's all over Eli too. Even you were a staunch defender of Eli until now. You still support him but not as much. I had no reason to bitch about Eli in 08 and 09 because I still supported him too. I said to myself that he's better than most QB's in the league. But since the middle of 08, it's been a steady decline. I'm still supporting the guy. Is he better than Aaron Rodgers? No..that guy is great. Manning had his best year in 2009...so he couldn't been in decline since mid 2008 lol. Does Eli make mistakes? Yes he does. Does he make boneheaded mistakes? Yup. He still makes some rookie mistakes which is unacceptable, but I have confidence in him that he'll correct the problem in the off season. As the "America's Game" stated "Manning can be bad for 3 quarters, but brilliant the next." Honestly...there is no one I'd rather have when my team is down 4-6 points with a few minutes left than Eli Manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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