Storm Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Lots of good points being made but Nas said fix the turnovers and we're good. To me, there is a direct relationship with the coaching and the turnovers. If your play calling and game planning is terrible, you are much more likely to turn the ball over. Consider this... from a defense's perspective, is it harder to defend 3rd and 2 or 3rd and 11? On third and 11 I am not worried about the run... there were a lot of 3rd and 11's this year (don't take that so literally), and opposing defenses capitalized. Part of the reason that was the case was due to the ridiculous pre-snap read offense that was being employed despite us losing our two starting WR's. Our guys were not on the same page with Eli.... this is the difference a good coach makes. A good coach is going to make the call and say, Eli, have them run the base route or audible to something else.... keep it simple for these guys and instead of trying to out think the defense before the play starts, just focus on execution. And yes, Fewell is definitely far too in love with the Cover 2. I could not understand the GB game when time and time again the corners were playing off the wide receivers giving an 8 yard cushion at the LOS... and then didn't bring pressure. Rodgers killed us underneath and he looked like Larry Bird shooting free throws... IT LOOKED EASY. As always, a spot on assessment. Yet, Coughlin' job "was NEVER in doubt".... And now Coughlin has no plans to make assistant coaching changes. Ridiculous. This team is beginning to be run like the Buffalo Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarence the Blue Puppet Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 every year francessa says this and it's sad but true: "the mara's only want one thing: for that last game at the meadowlands to be a meaningful one. as long as they have that they consider the season a success". it's tough for me to dislike them, especially the old man god rest his soul, but it's a helpless feeling knowing your owners have such low expectations for success. all that tough talk that came out of john mara's mouth this time last year was hot air. he's just a bullshitter What's more meaningful than an NFC Championship game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 What's more meaningful than an NFC Championship game? apparently the last regular season game. don't set your standards so high bro they got their new stadium and PSL's already, the rest is just gravy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Exactly....I think as long as the books balance and show a profit the Mara's are happy. Too bad the Tisch's have decided to back seat it when it comes to the franchise. I would be screaming that at minimum ST and Gilfuck must be sacrificed to appease me. Fine its not Tom's fault, but he has to be part of future solutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Anyone ever hear of delivering more than you promise? Would you rather have a Jerry Jones type who promises greatness and delivers mediocrity? Giants are one of the most successful franchises this past decade and forever. All of a sudden the ownership sucks because guys fumbled away the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 We want blood in the water man....give us the ST's coach....the Gilfuck...we danced and we want Gilfuck's head on a platter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Anyone ever hear of delivering more than you promise? Would you rather have a Jerry Jones type who promises greatness and delivers mediocrity? Giants are one of the most successful franchises this past decade and forever. All of a sudden the ownership sucks because guys fumbled away the season. i can see how one would think this would turn giants fans into a bunch of yankee fans but at least cowboy fans know that jerry jones expects a championship. i put up with this shit from the padres because of their financial situation. but i was at that new stadium this year and saw what my friend's stepdad pays for 2nd tier seats, this team isnt hurting for money and they should be setting their goals higher than 'at least we were in the playoff hunt' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 i can see how one would think this would turn giants fans into a bunch of yankee fans but at least cowboy fans know that jerry jones expects a championship. i put up with this shit from the padres because of their financial situation. but i was at that new stadium this year and saw what my friend's stepdad pays for 2nd tier seats, this team isnt hurting for money and they should be setting their goals higher than 'at least we were in the playoff hunt' i think what he meant was that he wants to do everything in his power to field a competitive team with a chance to win. the rest is up to the coaches, the players and luck. i've seen no evidence of the giants being cheap or settling. btw, the missing voice here is that of jerry reese. is his job safe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 i think jerry reese has done a wonderful job here. i think what bugs me so much is that i really love the talent we've brought in since the year we hired coughlin. the kenny holmes offseasons are still pretty fresh in my mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 The team improved from 2009 to 2010. The season could have ended better by getting into the playoffs. Nothing to get outraged at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 the defense shouldn't even have been OUT there that much in the end. we weren't prepared for an onside kick that a high school coach would've known to put the hands team out for and we didnt kill the clock effectively enough. in fact, if i didnt know better i'd say we weren't trying to kill the clock at all since we were THROWING THE BALL WHEN THE CLOCK WAS STOPPED. there's no excuse for that game not going to overtime There's no excuse for the game going anywhere.. period. We should have won.. in regulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Anyone ever hear of delivering more than you promise? Would you rather have a Jerry Jones type who promises greatness and delivers mediocrity? Giants are one of the most successful franchises this past decade and forever. All of a sudden the ownership sucks because guys fumbled away the season. I'm not blaming the ownership.. just because they don't make the headlines it doesn't mean they're not working to better the franchise. I think the ownership saw there's no real upside in changing the head coach.. and the downside far outweighs any potential upside.. and for that.. I am supportive of keeping coughlin (though the "collapse" will never be forgotten). However, ST and Gilbride have to go.. at a minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Lots of good points being made but Nas said fix the turnovers and we're good. To me, there is a direct relationship with the coaching and the turnovers. If your play calling and game planning is terrible, you are much more likely to turn the ball over. Consider this... from a defense's perspective, is it harder to defend 3rd and 2 or 3rd and 11? On third and 11 I am not worried about the run... there were a lot of 3rd and 11's this year (don't take that so literally), and opposing defenses capitalized. Part of the reason that was the case was due to the ridiculous pre-snap read offense that was being employed despite us losing our two starting WR's. Our guys were not on the same page with Eli.... this is the difference a good coach makes. A good coach is going to make the call and say, Eli, have them run the base route or audible to something else.... keep it simple for these guys and instead of trying to out think the defense before the play starts, just focus on execution. And yes, Fewell is definitely far too in love with the Cover 2. I could not understand the GB game when time and time again the corners were playing off the wide receivers giving an 8 yard cushion at the LOS... and then didn't bring pressure. Rodgers killed us underneath and he looked like Larry Bird shooting free throws... IT LOOKED EASY. this is all too priceless that people think it is this easy in the nfl...the dog loves it. in a game where every player on the field is making a pre-snap read and checking into patterns, calling blocking assignments...etc...you believe that a basic offense with all set pass patterns is the way to go. the other night the dog watched an analysis of one play the saints were running in which drew brees and the tight end split out on the line both made a presnap read based on the defensive alignment. they then made a second presnap read when bush was sent in motion based on the defenses shift. they then snapped the ball and both the TE and the QB dissected the linebacker and safety's initial drop to determine the pattern. they then connected for a td...funny thing, the TE doing this is a rookie...all of that on what was a basic play...a slant to anyone watching. this is happening in every offense of every play by every player...and it is happening on the HS level. but no, your all right...they should just run straight patterns with no reads because that would electrify the offense...too funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 this is all too priceless that people think it is this easy in the nfl...the dog loves it. in a game where every player on the field is making a pre-snap read and checking into patterns, calling blocking assignments...etc...you believe that a basic offense with all set pass patterns is the way to go. the other night the dog watched an analysis of one play the saints were running in which drew brees and the tight end split out on the line both made a presnap read based on the defensive alignment. they then made a second presnap read when bush was sent in motion based on the defenses shift. they then snapped the ball and both the TE and the QB dissected the linebacker and safety's initial drop to determine the pattern. they then connected for a td...funny thing, the TE doing this is a rookie...all of that on what was a basic play...a slant to anyone watching. this is happening in every offense of every play by every player...and it is happening on the HS level. but no, your all right...they should just run straight patterns with no reads because that would electrify the offense...too funny. Since you constantly ignore this fact and despite what you think about high school (because I'm sure you either coach HS football or watch every game ) . Again: OUR PLAYERS ARE OBVIOUSLY NOT SMART ENOUGH TO RUN AN OFFENSE LIKE THIS! If they were, Eli wouldn't be throwing to no one in particular other than the other team because Nicks or Hagan ran the completely wrong route. This is the point about the playcalling, and this is like the fourth time I've said this: If you're telling second year players and street free agents to be on the same page as Eli Manning presnap, every time, and they aren't about 15-18 times (my estimate, sans bobbles and forced throws), you need to simplify the offense. You start to use hot reads and do other things to simplify the offense. And we all know High School offenses are just as complicated as NFL offenses. Defenses in High School give the same looks as defenses in the NFL, too. You condescending dolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMFP Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 And yes, Fewell is definitely far too in love with the Cover 2. I could not understand the GB game when time and time again the corners were playing off the wide receivers giving an 8 yard cushion at the LOS... and then didn't bring pressure. Rodgers killed us underneath and he looked like Larry Bird shooting free throws... IT LOOKED EASY. That was awful.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Since you constantly ignore this fact and despite what you think about high school (because I'm sure you either coach HS football or watch every game ) . Again: OUR PLAYERS ARE OBVIOUSLY NOT SMART ENOUGH TO RUN AN OFFENSE LIKE THIS! If they were, Eli wouldn't be throwing to no one in particular other than the other team because Nicks or Hagan ran the completely wrong route. This is the point about the playcalling, and this is like the fourth time I've said this: If you're telling second year players and street free agents to be on the same page as Eli Manning presnap, every time, and they aren't about 15-18 times (my estimate, sans bobbles and forced throws), you need to simplify the offense. You start to use hot reads and do other things to simplify the offense. And we all know High School offenses are just as complicated as NFL offenses. Defenses in High School give the same looks as defenses in the NFL, too. You condescending dolt. you know, the dog seems to recall that little eli had one of, if not his best year statistically last year (27 tds to 14 picks) throwing in the same system to the same wide outs who were all one year younger with one year less experience...so, um, what happened? high school offenses are not as complicated, now you're just being silly. but they do have wide outs running option routes - listen to interviews now and then and you may pick up on some things...and they (the giants) have the option of hot reads on every route. that is what a hot read is. what else do you do to simplify the offense? come on, it's easy. let the dog know what you do...and while you are at it, you can complain like everyone else then once the offense is simplified that gillbride runs a mundane offense with no imaginiation, because that hasn't been said here before... really, you need to stick to clubby soccer, because football is far too complicated for you. you and jim should arrange a date and talk about your coaching genius ideas and figure out how in the name of the good lord the NFL owners have not come knocking on your doors to elevate the offensive play to new heights... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 you know, the dog seems to recall that little eli had one of, if not his best year statistically last year (27 tds to 14 picks) throwing in the same system to the same wide outs who were all one year younger with one year less experience...so, um, what happened? high school offenses are not as complicated, now you're just being silly. but they do have wide outs running option routes - listen to interviews now and then and you may pick up on some things...and they (the giants) have the option of hot reads on every route. that is what a hot read is. what else do you do to simplify the offense? come on, it's easy. let the dog know what you do...and while you are at it, you can complain like everyone else then once the offense is simplified that gillbride runs a mundane offense with no imaginiation, because that hasn't been said here before... really, you need to stick to clubby soccer, because football is far too complicated for you. you and jim should arrange a date and talk about your coaching genius ideas and figure out how in the name of the good lord the NFL owners have not come knocking on your doors to elevate the offensive play to new heights... Are you Keving Gilbride? (honest question ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Are you Keving Gilbride? (honest question ) what is funny is the dog could care less if gillbride never works in the nfl again...but blaming him is just plain odd. makes no sense. but fire away...wait and see what is out there in the coaching ranks...maybe you get lucky, but quality coordinators are few and far between... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 you know, the dog seems to recall that little eli had one of, if not his best year statistically last year (27 tds to 14 picks) throwing in the same system to the same wide outs who were all one year younger with one year less experience...so, um, what happened? high school offenses are not as complicated, now you're just being silly. but they do have wide outs running option routes - listen to interviews now and then and you may pick up on some things...and they (the giants) have the option of hot reads on every route. that is what a hot read is. what else do you do to simplify the offense? come on, it's easy. let the dog know what you do...and while you are at it, you can complain like everyone else then once the offense is simplified that gillbride runs a mundane offense with no imaginiation, because that hasn't been said here before... really, you need to stick to clubby soccer, because football is far too complicated for you. you and jim should arrange a date and talk about your coaching genius ideas and figure out how in the name of the good lord the NFL owners have not come knocking on your doors to elevate the offensive play to new heights... Because people actually interview high school football players. Question: do you remember when Sean Payton had receivers, tight ends, and running backs constantly in motion all the time to try to create mismatches based on how the defense was being read at the line? Do you remember Fassel taking control of the playcalling and the offense suddenly being better? Not exactly the same but definitely a relatable situation. Go back to basics if your offense starts sucking. And by hot reads I mean like, one route that both the quarterback and receiver know presnap based on the defense's tendencies that you would learn before the game...but considering I don't believe that Gilbride even watches anything on the opposition coming into the game because...hell, that's what the first 15 scripted plays are for....I don't believe this suggestion would help. But I'm not talking about the approximately SIX hot reads based on the defense at the line of scrimmage that you and Gilbride like. And despite the all-telling statistics (LOL) Hakeem Nicks ran the wrong routes numerous times his rookie season as well. Maybe if it was simplified, Manning would have thrown 27 to 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Because people actually interview high school football players. Question: do you remember when Sean Payton had receivers, tight ends, and running backs constantly in motion all the time to try to create mismatches based on how the defense was being read at the line? Do you remember Fassel taking control of the playcalling and the offense suddenly being better? Not exactly the same but definitely a relatable situation. Go back to basics if your offense starts sucking. And by hot reads I mean like, one route that both the quarterback and receiver know presnap based on the defense's tendencies that you would learn before the game...but considering I don't believe that Gilbride even watches anything on the opposition coming into the game because...hell, that's what the first 15 scripted plays are for....I don't believe this suggestion would help. But I'm not talking about the approximately SIX hot reads based on the defense at the line of scrimmage that you and Gilbride like. no, but they interview nfl players who discuss playing at all levels...but then, that concept went right over your head. and when did the offense start "sucking"? the dog doesn't understand where the offense has been so bad over gillbride's tenure. but all you internet coaches that believe it to be so obvious sitting on your couches and yet, can't seem to land a job in the nfl, well, that makes sense. every coach scripts the initial plays. bill walsh did it all the time, but the dog supposses he knew little about being successful in the nfl. you do that because despite film work, you need to try and see how the team has come out to defend YOUR TEAM...not the others. you see that by showing various formations to see how they will defend it and what type of match-ups you will have...and sometimes you even have plays that you know may not be successful, but you run them to see tendencies, set other plays up, and break your own tendencies. and this just in, scripting plays doesn't mean you run exactly what you have scripted. it means you come out in the formation and sets, with a play called. most cases audibles are always an option, and many times the QB comes to the line with two play options...but then, you know this because you are the greatest oc next to allstarjim that has never coached. and this just in, while the offense is doing all of this to get tendencies, the defense isn't sitting idle...because they are going to make adjustments and break their own tendencies as well...and as an OC gillbride gets to do all of this with one running back that refuses to hold onto the ball, one running back whose mouth runs harder than his overrated, bloated 260 pound frame, and a QB that likes to periodically make decisions that even nfl rookie QBs stop making after 5 games... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 what is funny is the dog could care less if gillbride never works in the nfl again...but blaming him is just plain odd. makes no sense. but fire away...wait and see what is out there in the coaching ranks...maybe you get lucky, but quality coordinators are few and far between... Yea I'm not a big fan of Gilbride but I'm cautious this maybe a case of grass is greener on the other side.. mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Yea I'm not a big fan of Gilbride but I'm cautious this maybe a case of grass is greener on the other side.. mentality. too often changes result in steps backward...and it is rare that a new coordinator is going to come in and the team is going to instantly adapt, especially a team with many young players in the skilled positions...the dog really doesn't get the idea that gillbride is so bad...he is not the best, but he is not bad. again, you can get lucky, but you can also get a lot worse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 no, but they interview nfl players who discuss playing at all levels...but then, that concept went right over your head. and when did the offense start "sucking"? the dog doesn't understand where the offense has been so bad over gillbride's tenure. but all you internet coaches that believe it to be so obvious sitting on your couches and yet, can't seem to land a job in the nfl, well, that makes sense. every coach scripts the initial plays. bill walsh did it all the time, but the dog supposses he knew little about being successful in the nfl. you do that because despite film work, you need to try and see how the team has come out to defend YOUR TEAM...not the others. you see that by showing various formations to see how they will defend it and what type of match-ups you will have...and sometimes you even have plays that you know may not be successful, but you run them to see tendencies, set other plays up, and break your own tendencies. and this just in, scripting plays doesn't mean you run exactly what you have scripted. it means you come out in the formation and sets, with a play called. most cases audibles are always an option, and many times the QB comes to the line with two play options...but then, you know this because you are the greatest oc next to allstarjim that has never coached. and this just in, while the offense is doing all of this to get tendencies, the defense isn't sitting idle...because they are going to make adjustments and break their own tendencies as well...and as an OC gillbride gets to do all of this with one running back that refuses to hold onto the ball, one running back whose mouth runs harder than his overrated, bloated 260 pound frame, and a QB that likes to periodically make decisions that even nfl rookie QBs stop making after 5 games... Because you stick to your flawed point constantly and don't read the evidence others present to you. Or if you do then you just dismiss it because it doesn't fit with your point. I've already pointed out the 15.5 points we averaged in the losses this season. That sucks. The poor 3rd down conversion percentage, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Because you stick to your flawed point constantly and don't read the evidence others present to you. Or if you do then you just dismiss it because it doesn't fit with your point. I've already pointed out the 15.5 points we averaged in the losses this season. That sucks. The poor 3rd down conversion percentage, for example. well, let the dog take a look...hmm, they ranked 5th in total offense. 10th in passing yards. 6th in rushing. 8th in points scored (probably pretty important to rank high in that category, at least, well, if you are going to judge the offensive coordinator). manning threw for over 4000 yards despite your complaints. they had two average backs combine for over 2000 yards rushing. and here is something interesting, as the dog pointed out to you in another thread that you didn't seem to want to comprehend...in the loss against the titans - how many red zone turnovers were there? that will sure keep your point total down...thanks eli, ahmad and company. how about against the cowboys - hey, eli threw an interception on a BASIC slant route in the endzone that was returned for a TD...that will sure keep the point total down...let's analyze the packer game...after a rousing speech to fire up the troops, eli responded with 4 interceptions to compliment the two fumbles and 6 turn overs...yeah, that is all on gillbride, and yes, that will impact point total for another loss...let's see. the colts were up by 24 before you could blink an eye. not easy playing catch up at that point....and didn't eli fumble on the team's way to knotting up the eagle game, hence lowering point totals....hello? are you there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boohyah Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 The Mara's don't want to win??? Seriously, what the fuck guys?? Really, I think I'm a newcomer supporting the team since 84, but some of you seem you started following the team this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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