Giants rushing players back from injury too soon

[Allstarjim]

I'm sure most people here have read my previous posts about being frustrated by Aaron Ross' injury in particular because it was a re-injury that occurred from being rushed back to practice too soon. At least now, they are being cautious with him and Canty.

 

But I was a little miffed that the Giants didn't let Tuck sit down for at least one game when he injured his labrum (a partial tear) in the Dallas game, seeing as we were coming up on our easiest stretch of the season (games against TB, KC, and OAK). Does anyone feel that we couldn't have beat all three of those teams with Kiwanuka rather than Tuck? I felt then that it was a risk to play him not worth taking... personally I'd rather have a 100% Tuck for 13 or 14 games than a 75-85% Tuck for 14 or 15 games. Why not let it heal going into that stretch? Especially when he could potentially worsen that injury causing him to have to get surgery!

 

Now we have an injury with McKenzie's groin.... could be a strain, might be a slight tear. In either case, especially given Kareem's size, you need to let this thing heal or we could lose Kareem for a very long time. But instead, the Giants have elected to let him practice today (on a limited basis). Coughlin's going to let him get a few snaps in. Here is McKenzie, a veteran... and we're talking 'bout practice, right Iverson? What tiny benefit do the Giants or McKenzie stand to gain by having him practice on this injured groin this afternoon? Could we at least have held him out until Friday's practice like Bradshaw?

 

This type of mismanagement of injuries can make small problems bigger. Maybe I'm making a big deal out of this unnecessarily. But look at Ross.... he could have been out there playing last Sunday but he wasn't. Could he have helped that secondary? You bet he could've.

 

Injury management can definitely affect the win column. I'm not saying we would have won had Ross been playing. But we are about to go into the toughest part of our schedule... with a lot of guys that are still hurt who haven't been afforded rest... guys playing less than 100%. Perhaps they would be close to 100% if they had just missed a game against say, Oakland? But now we really need our horses out there, and it's time to really pray that injuries don't worsen, and that new ones don't arise. The bye week can't come quickly enough.

[Lubeck]

I've said it a couple times already but it is worth repeating.

 

The Giants share the same medical staff as the Mets.

[JackStroud]

we should have people who can step in

 

apparently we do not

 

the whole team is showing lack of conditioning and depth

 

unless the winds change drastically this will be a lost season....fun to watch now that we have a very good offense but championships are won on the defensive side of the ball

 

the best D ive seen is being played in Denver

 

with Pierce as our "coach on the field" it semed we always had to play with 10.5 men on D

 

now it seems were only putting 8-9 players on the field

 

right now we are bleeding form a thousand cuts

[Mr. P]

wow no matter what the subject of the thread is jack will find a way to talk about pierce

 

 

give it a rest clown

[NightFire]

Was Tuck sitting in the second half of the Oakland game like every body else? Also after your Iverson quote I have to post this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exOxUAntx8I

[Allstarjim]

we should have people who can step in

 

apparently we do not

 

the whole team is showing lack of conditioning and depth

unless the winds change drastically this will be a lost season....fun to watch now that we have a very good offense but championships are won on the defensive side of the ball

 

the best D ive seen is being played in Denver

 

with Pierce as our "coach on the field" it semed we always had to play with 10.5 men on D

 

now it seems were only putting 8-9 players on the field

 

right now we are bleeding form a thousand cuts

 

 

Jack, there no teams in the NFL that can sustain a great number of injuries and win. I would challenge your assessment that the Giants do not have depth. They lost Ross and Thomas has stepped up and done as good if not a better job than Ross. We lose Canty (and Alford) and we have Bernard, Cofield and Robbins at the position still. And certainly you are not saying that Chase has not adequately filled Boley's spot? In actuality, we do NOT have another linebacker that can perform up to Boley's level. But that speaks more to Boley's rare athleticism than it does for a perceived weakness of our linebackers. I actually think Chase is a decent linebacker that has filled in ok. But ok doesn't give you what Boley gives you, which is a guy that can cover all over the field and take away the opposing team's TE or RB in coverage. That was apparent last Sunday. I think Kehl is the closest thing to Boley we have but he has been benched in large part in favor of your man crush.

 

There is no team in the NFL that has good depth at every position. However, we have good depth at most positions. I think the Giants came into this season with good depth at corner, linebacker, defensive line, quarterback, runningback, wide receiver, and tight end. We have decent depth at tackle as I think Beatty can do a good job, ok depth at guard.

 

But we had/have little to no depth at Safety (painfully evident since KP went down), Center (O'Hara needs to stay healthy), and Fullback (Hedgecock is all we have).

 

Unfortunately, we sustained a severe injury to one of those positions with Phillips.

 

Also, we have sustained two injuries to defensive tackle position that has made us a little thin for right now. And there always players that are irreplaceable on our team, no matter who you bring in to be a backup. Think Eli, Tuck, Webster, Boley, and yes, Phillips was one as well.

 

Our problem has not been depth... it has been a couple of key injuries coupled with a team in general, that is grinding through injuries (Bradshaw, Tuck, etc.). But your point about conditioning (as it pertains to injury management) may have merit. And I like your "bleeding from a thousand cuts" metaphor. That is maybe the truest thing you have said on here in awhile.

 

But for the love give the Pierce talk a rest. He is still a pretty good player that does more good for our defense than he does poorly with his limited coverage skills.

[mastershake]

I've said it a couple times already but it is worth repeating.

 

The Giants share the same medical staff as the Mets.

 

Haha.... well done.

[JackStroud]

Jack, there no teams in the NFL that can sustain a great number of injuries and win. I would challenge your assessment that the Giants do not have depth. They lost Ross and Thomas has stepped up and done as good if not a better job than Ross. We lose Canty (and Alford) and we have Bernard, Cofield and Robbins at the position still. And certainly you are not saying that Chase has not adequately filled Boley's spot? In actuality, we do NOT have another linebacker that can perform up to Boley's level. But that speaks more to Boley's rare athleticism than it does for a perceived weakness of our linebackers. I actually think Chase is a decent linebacker that has filled in ok. But ok doesn't give you what Boley gives you, which is a guy that can cover all over the field and take away the opposing team's TE or RB in coverage. That was apparent last Sunday. I think Kehl is the closest thing to Boley we have but he has been benched in large part in favor of your man crush.

 

There is no team in the NFL that has good depth at every position. However, we have good depth at most positions. I think the Giants came into this season with good depth at corner, linebacker, defensive line, quarterback, runningback, wide receiver, and tight end. We have decent depth at tackle as I think Beatty can do a good job, ok depth at guard.

 

But we had/have little to no depth at Safety (painfully evident since KP went down), Center (O'Hara needs to stay healthy), and Fullback (Hedgecock is all we have).

 

Unfortunately, we sustained a severe injury to one of those positions with Phillips.

 

Also, we have sustained two injuries to defensive tackle position that has made us a little thin for right now. And there always players that are irreplaceable on our team, no matter who you bring in to be a backup. Think Eli, Tuck, Webster, Boley, and yes, Phillips was one as well.

 

Our problem has not been depth... it has been a couple of key injuries coupled with a team in general, that is grinding through injuries (Bradshaw, Tuck, etc.). But your point about conditioning (as it pertains to injury management) may have merit. And I like your "bleeding from a thousand cuts" metaphor. That is maybe the truest thing you have said on here in awhile.

 

But for the love give the Pierce talk a rest. He is still a pretty good player that does more good for our defense than he does poorly with his limited coverage skills.

 

Blackburn is playing out of position.....he must be the worlds largest OLBer....except for people like merriman who play in a 3-4 and are really down lineman

 

along those lines perhaps we should move Kiwanuka back to OLBer to increase the pressure.....he is much faster than Chase

 

and put Chase at MLber and this D is 30-40% better overnight )

[Allstarjim]

Blackburn is playing out of position.....he must be the worlds largest OLBer....except for people like merriman who play in a 3-4 and are really down lineman

 

along those lines perhaps we should move Kiwanuka back to OLBer to increase the pressure.....he is much faster than Chase

 

and put Chase at MLber and this D is 30-40% better overnight )

 

 

How does Kiwanuka going back to linebacker help the pass rush? He would only rush on blitzes, and hurt the pass coverage when he isn't blitzing. And you can't make a sustainable argument that he would be better than Clark against the run. If you are saying moving him to WLB at Chase's spot, then that is even more ridiculous, because then he is expected to cover TE's and RB's a lot, which is not something Kiwi is good at. Kiwi is needed where he is at... which is rotating in with Osi and Tuck at DE.

 

I will agree with you that Chase is out of position at the WIL and is too slow to play that position. The fix, to me... is to put Kehl in the starting lineup there and move Chase to the bench. Chase is a good backup for Pierce and Clark. I have no problems with him filling in for those two guys. But Kehl is the best man for the job at the WIL in the absence of Boley.

[Tempest]

You gotta trust the judgment of the medical staff and the player. They know what they can and cannot do. I don't think there is a single starter in the NFL playing at 100% after the first week but they get out there and get it done.

[JackStroud]

How does Kiwanuka going back to linebacker help the pass rush? He would only rush on blitzes, and hurt the pass coverage when he isn't blitzing. And you can't make a sustainable argument that he would be better than Clark against the run. If you are saying moving him to WLB at Chase's spot, then that is even more ridiculous, because then he is expected to cover TE's and RB's a lot, which is not something Kiwi is good at. Kiwi is needed where he is at... which is rotating in with Osi and Tuck at DE.

 

I will agree with you that Chase is out of position at the WIL and is too slow to play that position. The fix, to me... is to put Kehl in the starting lineup there and move Chase to the bench. Chase is a good backup for Pierce and Clark. I have no problems with him filling in for those two guys. But Kehl is the best man for the job at the WIL in the absence of Boley.

[JackStroud]

I agree with you about Kiehl or the other guy at WIL but Chase is out there to overcome Pierce's inabiltiy to stop a runner for a less than 5 yd gain

 

Chase at MLB er and Kiehl at WIL would work

 

When Chase has played MLBer in the regular season the team has played 1000% better

[Lubeck]

You gotta trust the judgment of the medical staff and the player. They know what they can and cannot do. I don't think there is a single starter in the NFL playing at 100% after the first week but they get out there and get it done.

 

See Mets Season 2009....No I do not.

[Allstarjim]

See Mets Season 2009....No I do not.

 

Lubeck, are you implying that they will clear a player for practicing due to at least in some part, pressure from the coaching staff? I think that's quite possible.

 

Also, I never trust a player. Most players are going to say they can play or they are good to go before they are ready. You have to force these guys to sit and heal. Why do you think McKenzie reportedly said something like, "I'm going to try and give it a go (for practice yesterday)." He's acknowledging he's really not ready but will risk his groin for a Wednesday practice for some reason... like being seen as tough by his teammates.

 

I trust Eli to manage his injuries correctly, and only Eli... and even then, not 100%.

[Balloonknot]

Update on Ross from BBI

 

CB Aaron Ross (hamstring) said his leg is feeling much better and wanted to run yesterday, but team doctors would not let him. “Apparently they didn’t feel I was ready,” Ross said.

[mastershake]

Is Canty anywhere near coming back?

[JackStroud]

I hear Pierce has a bad back

 

I hope they rest him until the year 2025 season LOL

[Allstarjim]

Update on Ross from BBI

 

CB Aaron Ross (hamstring) said his leg is feeling much better and wanted to run yesterday, but team doctors would not let him. “Apparently they didn’t feel I was ready,” Ross said.

 

 

I did say that they are now being cautious with Ross and Canty.... of course, in Ross' case, that is after they rushed him back in TRAINING CAMP.