A Shockey Trade Deal Still Cooking?

[xxi-xxv]

I completely understand and you're right. As a father I wouldn't condel (sp) Shockey's actions to my kids. However, as a fan... I'm glad he did it. After the seahawks game the first thing that popped in my head was "Does this team care about winning?" Where's the fire! If I'm not mistaken that was the third straight game the Giants looked awful. Yes I know the Giants won against the Eagle the week before. But this team looked unprepared yet again...

 

As for getting with the program. Personally I think he has done that... When he was asked to be a better run blocker. He worked and improve his run blocking. last year he came worked out with the team... But now, when he ask to be used better in the passing game. He is selfish and not a team player. Why is that? how come Toomer and Tony Gonzales, A Gates, get a free pass and shockey can't? (I know, I know fish..They went through the media and not their Agents.) lets not forget also the Bavaro had about 4 good years before his knees started giving out.

 

I think we are misusing Shockey. where are the seem passes? Where are the crossing patterns? Where's the one on ones? I know, I know he's lost a step. He may not be as fast. but still faster than most TE in the league. If that fat, piece of shit, non-blocking, pass drop, Jason Witten can do it. I'm sure Shockey can also.

 

Nem the Giants run plenty of crossing and seam patterns with SHockey, in fact in the Dallas game alone he must have had at least 8 of his 12 grabs on crossing patterns. This idea that all he does is catch 3 yard curls is just not true. If thats the case how come his yards/catch are not that much lower than they were in 2003, yet his ability to shed tacklers is not what it once was.

[Martin]

I think Shockey can be used a bit more but is that

the real problem. Some where along the line Shockey feels

disconnected from this S-bowl win and his team.

 

Did the media cause that? Or is Shockeys ego

to big for this team. I dont have the answer to that but

Eli made plays without SHockey and won a S-Bowl.

Thats the hard fact. Shockey must buy into this Coughlin

team mentality and forget about personal stats etc...

 

I'm just curious if he didnt get hurt and played out the

season and the Giants won the S-bowl with him would he

have been interested in being traded??

 

Shockey's feelings were hurt at least thats my take on it.

[Tempest]

I'm amazed how this thread has warped from rational arguments either for or against trading Shockey to posts with very little fact and plenty of opinion. I think its really sad to see so many posts telling Shockey to STFU when he has said absolutely nothing this past season. With all the talk since the super bowl about Shockey getting traded, not wanting to be here, etc. Maybe people need to start following their own advice.

 

Now Shockey hasn't said a single word about this, not one. If anyone is foolish to believe the team is better off without Shockey, then by all means trade him. The price before and during the draft was Harper and the second round pick, now its a 2009 first round and a fourth that is conditional because if Shockey has his typical season; it gets upgraded to a second round pick. Now that is deal truly worthy of the kind of player Jeremy Shockey is.

[NeMesiS]

Nem the Giants run plenty of crossing and seam patterns with SHockey, in fact in the Dallas game alone he must have had at least 8 of his 12 grabs on crossing patterns. This idea that all he does is catch 3 yard curls is just not true. If thats the case how come his yards/catch are not that much lower than they were in 2003, yet his ability to shed tacklers is not what it once was.

Yes, thank you... The Dallas game is the only game I saw Shockey used properly. I think this team can have a better offensive output if we use all our weapons correctly. Shockey does alot of 3 yards curls...It a fact. Money and Gateb talked about the first int Eli thru against the Bears. That was a curl route and Urlacker was just sitting on it.

[Treehugger]

Yes, thank you... The Dallas game is the only game I saw Shockey used properly. I think this team can have a better offensive output if we use all our weapons correctly. Shockey does alot of 3 yards curls...It a fact. Money and Gateb talked about the first int Eli thru against the Bears. That was a curl route and Urlacker was just sitting on it.

Isn't that the one were Eli looks like he was actually following Plax 10 yards behind Shockey? It was a shitty throw and I don't even think it was intended for Shockey. We dissected that video in a thread here after the game.

[gateb]

Isn't that the one were Eli looks like he was actually following Plax 10 yards behind Shockey? It was a shitty throw and I don't even think it was intended for Shockey. We dissected that video in a thread here after the game.

Can you dig that one up? I don't remember it.

 

I've seen the play at least 4 or 5 times and it looked like eli did everything right on the play. He threw it with confidence, tight spiral, and set his feet. He did all the things that he never does on his INTs.

[Treehugger]

Can you dig that one up? I don't remember it.

 

I've seen the play at least 4 or 5 times and it looked like eli did everything right on the play. He threw it with confidence, tight spiral, and set his feet. He did all the things that he never does on his INTs.

I'm pretty sure it's the same one. Let me look...

[Treehugger]

Here's the thread but I can't find the link to the video yet...

[JMFP]

Maybe we should trade Eli for a QB that utilizes Shockey's immense physical gifts properly.

[Money]

Yes, thank you... The Dallas game is the only game I saw Shockey used properly. I think this team can have a better offensive output if we use all our weapons correctly. Shockey does alot of 3 yards curls...It a fact. Money and Gateb talked about the first int Eli thru against the Bears. That was a curl route and Urlacker was just sitting on it.

 

The pass was actually intended for Burress. Eli expected Shockey to clear out Urlacher.

[Money]

After how many failed attempts? We SUCK at screens.

 

My beef with the Shotgun Draw isn't that it's necessarily a bad play, it's that it's a bad play to hand a delayed ball to a Powerback with no momentum. It completely negated Brandon's main weapon; inertia.

 

I don't even recall us running that play that much.

[Money]

I think we are misusing Shockey. where are the seem passes? Where are the crossing patterns? Where's the one on ones? I know, I know he's lost a step. He may not be as fast. but still faster than most TE in the league. If that fat, piece of shit, non-blocking, pass drop, Jason Witten can do it. I'm sure Shockey can also.

 

We've used SEAM passes in our offense. Refer to Boss' big catch in the Super Bowl, our his TD against the Skins after Shockey got hurt.

 

Also, check out this this video -- it's all the passes thrown to Shockey in Week 3. Not only does it include a couple of seam passes, but it also includes other downfield routes and crossing patterns.

[xxi-xxv]

I'm amazed how this thread has warped from rational arguments either for or against trading Shockey to posts with very little fact and plenty of opinion. I think its really sad to see so many posts telling Shockey to STFU when he has said absolutely nothing this past season. With all the talk since the super bowl about Shockey getting traded, not wanting to be here, etc. Maybe people need to start following their own advice.

 

Now Shockey hasn't said a single word about this, not one. If anyone is foolish to believe the team is better off without Shockey, then by all means trade him. The price before and during the draft was Harper and the second round pick, now its a 2009 first round and a fourth that is conditional because if Shockey has his typical season; it gets upgraded to a second round pick. Now that is deal truly worthy of the kind of player Jeremy Shockey is.

 

So the FACT as it was REPORTED in the papers that Shockey went to management in DECEMBER, BEFORE a playoff birth was secured and complained about his role in the offense does not constitute "saying nothing this past season".

 

My suggestion to you and take it for what its worth, but before you come here and start challenging people on facts vs. opinions its best to get yours straight first. For the record I agree no reason to trade him, he is still useful and should be motivated by all this such talk.

 

Just to clarify here is the linkShockey

 

Shockey wants new role or trade

Saturday, April 19, 2008

BY MIKE GARAFOLO

Star-Ledger Staff

The prevailing theory regarding the Giants and Jeremy Shockey is the team learned during its Super Bowl run they no longer need the Pro Bowl tight end.

 

Truth is, Shockey made the first move toward a separation. And he did so before the playoffs even began.

 

Shockey told the Giants in December he wanted a changed role in the offense or a trade to another team, according to a person familiar with discussions between Shockey, the Giants' coaching staff and front office. The person, who requested anonymity because he isn't authorized to speak on behalf of Shockey or the Giants, said Shockey threatened to sit out the upcoming season if neither request was granted.

 

Shockey, 27, who suffered a broken fibula in a Dec. 16 loss to the Redskins, feels his career is being cut short by all the blocking he has been asked to do since Tom Coughlin became coach of the Giants in 2004. While blocking is an integral part of a tight end's job description, Shockey believes he was more effective as a receiver under former coach Jim Fassel and offensive coordinator Sean Payton, now the coach of the New Orleans Saints, who are interested in trading for Shockey.

 

Giants general manager Jerry Reese, who said on Thursday that Shockey is the Giants' starting tight end "right now," had no comment recently when asked about Shockey's trade demands. Yesterday, Shockey's agent, Drew Rosenhaus, addressed the trade rumors during an appearance on ESPN's "NFL Live."

 

"In terms of Jeremy's feelings as relating to the Giants, that's something that we've communicated to the Giants and the ball's going to be in their court," Rosenhaus said, later adding: "We've had discussions with the Giants about Jeremy. I'll leave it at that. And you hear what Jerry Reese had to say. It's going to be up to the Giants to decide whether or not they want to trade Jeremy."

 

Shockey has complained about his role several times since Coughlin arrived. Late in the 2004 season he griped about being turned into "an average player" by the new coach's offense. This came three months after he complained about pre-snap motion, which made him "tired before I get to my final spot."

 

In addition to neutralizing his receiving ability, Shockey believes the number of injuries he has suffered over the past few years can be attributed to all the blocking he has done. He has battled several ankle sprains, including one that nearly sidelined him for the game against the Redskins in which he broke his leg.

 

Still, Shockey hasn't said much publicly about his role the past few years. But behind closed doors he has been as vocal as ever. According to someone who speaks with former Giants tight end Visanthe Shiancoe regularly, Shockey once told Shiancoe to stay with the Giants because Shockey wanted to leave, which would have left the starting spot to Shiancoe.

 

The person, who asked not to be named because the conversation was private, said the emotional Shockey then flipped his stance and told Shiancoe he'd be better off playing for a team that features a receiving tight end in its offense. Shiancoe signed a five-year, $18 million deal with the Vikings last

On Thursday, Reese confirmed there have been trade talks with other teams, though he made it clear the Giants did not initiate those discussions. One of those teams was the Saints, with whom the Giants discussed a trade involving New Orleans' second-round pick in next weekend's draft and third-year safety Roman Harper. The trade never happened, but the rumors involving Shockey and the Saints haven't subsided.

 

The Giants don't look like they're preparing for a Shockey trade. Someone familiar with their draft plans said tight end isn't one of the positions they're targeting next weekend. The team hasn't brought in any tight ends projected to go early in the draft and haven't made a play for any free agents at the position.

 

Advertisement

 

The person also said the team likes Kevin Boss' potential but understands he still needs to work on his blocking and receiving while continuing to adjust to the speed of the NFL. Boss, a fifth-round pick from Western Oregon last year, had a key 45-yard catch in the Super Bowl but had only five total catches in four postseason games -- well below the output Shockey likely would have provided.

 

Under Fassel and Payton, Shockey was used as more of a downfield threat. In those two seasons, Shockey averaged 5.1 catches per game while averaging 12.1 and 11.1 yards per catch respectively. Those are the second- and third-highest averages of his six-year career.

 

In four seasons under Coughlin, Shockey has caught 4.2 passes per game and has averaged more than 11 yards per catch only once -- in 2005 when he had a career-high 13.7-yard average.

 

Shockey, who is scheduled to earn $1.9 million in salary next season and is signed through 2011, is training in Miami. It remains to be seen if he'll attend the mandatory veteran minicamp in June -- or if he is even a Giant at that point.

 

 

 

Mike Garafolo may be reached

 

at mgarafolo@starledger.com

[fringe]

it all comes down to this:

 

if someone wants him bad enough to over value him- we should take it.

if not, we keep him.

 

we should not trade him for equal or lesser value. it wouldn't make sense.

[boohyah]

The pass was actually intended for Burress. Eli expected Shockey to clear out Urlacher.

 

 

Not saying you're right or wrong Money. But a poor pass is a poor pass and that was a poor paas by Eli.

[Money]

Not saying you're right or wrong Money. But a poor pass is a poor pass and that was a poor paas by Eli.

 

I don't know if it was a poor pass. It might have been a strike. We'll never know since Urlacher picked it off before it could reach (or not reach) its intended target...

[fishgutmartyr]

Just to clarify here is the linkShockey

 

Shockey wants new role or trade

Saturday, April 19, 2008

BY MIKE GARAFOLO

Star-Ledger Staff

The prevailing theory regarding the Giants and Jeremy Shockey is the team learned during its Super Bowl run they no longer need the Pro Bowl tight end.

 

Truth is, Shockey made the first move toward a separation. And he did so before the playoffs even began.

 

Shockey told the Giants in December he wanted a changed role in the offense or a trade to another team, according to a person familiar with discussions between Shockey, the Giants' coaching staff and front office. The person, who requested anonymity because he isn't authorized to speak on behalf of Shockey or the Giants, said Shockey threatened to sit out the upcoming season if neither request was granted.

 

Shockey, 27, who suffered a broken fibula in a Dec. 16 loss to the Redskins, feels his career is being cut short by all the blocking he has been asked to do since Tom Coughlin became coach of the Giants in 2004. While blocking is an integral part of a tight end's job description, Shockey believes he was more effective as a receiver under former coach Jim Fassel and offensive coordinator Sean Payton, now the coach of the New Orleans Saints, who are interested in trading for Shockey.

 

Giants general manager Jerry Reese, who said on Thursday that Shockey is the Giants' starting tight end "right now," had no comment recently when asked about Shockey's trade demands. Yesterday, Shockey's agent, Drew Rosenhaus, addressed the trade rumors during an appearance on ESPN's "NFL Live."

 

"In terms of Jeremy's feelings as relating to the Giants, that's something that we've communicated to the Giants and the ball's going to be in their court," Rosenhaus said, later adding: "We've had discussions with the Giants about Jeremy. I'll leave it at that. And you hear what Jerry Reese had to say. It's going to be up to the Giants to decide whether or not they want to trade Jeremy."

 

Shockey has complained about his role several times since Coughlin arrived. Late in the 2004 season he griped about being turned into "an average player" by the new coach's offense. This came three months after he complained about pre-snap motion, which made him "tired before I get to my final spot."

 

In addition to neutralizing his receiving ability, Shockey believes the number of injuries he has suffered over the past few years can be attributed to all the blocking he has done. He has battled several ankle sprains, including one that nearly sidelined him for the game against the Redskins in which he broke his leg.

 

Still, Shockey hasn't said much publicly about his role the past few years. But behind closed doors he has been as vocal as ever. According to someone who speaks with former Giants tight end Visanthe Shiancoe regularly, Shockey once told Shiancoe to stay with the Giants because Shockey wanted to leave, which would have left the starting spot to Shiancoe.

 

The person, who asked not to be named because the conversation was private, said the emotional Shockey then flipped his stance and told Shiancoe he'd be better off playing for a team that features a receiving tight end in its offense. Shiancoe signed a five-year, $18 million deal with the Vikings last

On Thursday, Reese confirmed there have been trade talks with other teams, though he made it clear the Giants did not initiate those discussions. One of those teams was the Saints, with whom the Giants discussed a trade involving New Orleans' second-round pick in next weekend's draft and third-year safety Roman Harper. The trade never happened, but the rumors involving Shockey and the Saints haven't subsided.

 

The Giants don't look like they're preparing for a Shockey trade. Someone familiar with their draft plans said tight end isn't one of the positions they're targeting next weekend. The team hasn't brought in any tight ends projected to go early in the draft and haven't made a play for any free agents at the position.

 

Advertisement

 

The person also said the team likes Kevin Boss' potential but understands he still needs to work on his blocking and receiving while continuing to adjust to the speed of the NFL. Boss, a fifth-round pick from Western Oregon last year, had a key 45-yard catch in the Super Bowl but had only five total catches in four postseason games -- well below the output Shockey likely would have provided.

 

Under Fassel and Payton, Shockey was used as more of a downfield threat. In those two seasons, Shockey averaged 5.1 catches per game while averaging 12.1 and 11.1 yards per catch respectively. Those are the second- and third-highest averages of his six-year career.

 

In four seasons under Coughlin, Shockey has caught 4.2 passes per game and has averaged more than 11 yards per catch only once -- in 2005 when he had a career-high 13.7-yard average.

 

Shockey, who is scheduled to earn $1.9 million in salary next season and is signed through 2011, is training in Miami. It remains to be seen if he'll attend the mandatory veteran minicamp in June -- or if he is even a Giant at that point.

Mike Garafolo may be reached

 

at mgarafolo@starledger.com

Nem, by any chance do you see a difference between this and what Toomer did in 2005, which was pretty much "Gee, I'd like to get the ball more."?

[eagleEye]

Shockey told the Giants in December he wanted a changed role in the offense or a trade to another team, according to a person familiar with discussions between Shockey, the Giants' coaching staff and front office. The person, who requested anonymity because he isn't authorized to speak on behalf of Shockey or the Giants, said Shockey threatened to sit out the upcoming season if neither request was granted.

 

That is the most uncredible thing Ive ever heard. Garbage.

[Nas]

I thought once I said my $0.02, this discussion would be over. This "democracy" and "freedom of speech" thing really has its down side. :brooding:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But really, Shocky is a Giant now and should remain a Giant because he's a great player who can be even greater.

[xxi-xxv]

That is the most uncredible thing Ive ever heard. Garbage.

 

Yes because Mike Garafolo is an UNCREDIBLE writer.

[Tempest]

lol those aren't facts, thats innuendo at best. You have to wonder if this is a similar unnamed source that the Boston Herald found for its story on the Patriots taping the Rams super bowl walk through back in 2002.

 

I will challenge people to come up with facts because there is so far an incredible lack of it. Still looking for that one word from Shockey saying he wants out. If all anyone can find is that unnamed source or a friend of a friend, well then someone help Goodall find that tape.

 

Seriously, take a look at Chad Johnson for example. Is there any question in anyone's mind where he stands?

[Virginia Giant]

lol those aren't facts, thats innuendo at best. You have to wonder if this is a similar unnamed source that the Boston Herald found for its story on the Patriots taping the Rams super bowl walk through back in 2002.

 

I will challenge people to come up with facts because there is so far an incredible lack of it. Still looking for that one word from Shockey saying he wants out. If all anyone can find is that unnamed source or a friend of a friend, well then someone help Goodall find that tape.

 

Seriously, take a look at Chad Johnson for example. Is there any question in anyone's mind where he stands?

Kinda like that unnamed source that said tiki was going to retire? (before he confirmed of course)

[NeMesiS]

Nem, by any chance do you see a difference between this and what Toomer did in 2005, which was pretty much "Gee, I'd like to get the ball more."?

yes... I see a big difference. Toomer was quoted he wanted the ball more often. And the other quote came from 'someone who wishes to be nameless'.

[Taylorized56]

Don't shoot the messenger gents

 

Even Gilbride's unsure about Shockey

 

It might be rookie minicamp, but the veterans are still a topic of conversation - particularly Jeremy Shockey. Today, offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride said he's not even sure if the tight end will play another down for the Giants or if he'll be traded.

 

"It's so nebulous right now. I just have no idea what's going to happen," Gilbride said. "Right now, he's on our team. We're planning on him being there and he'll be one of the guys we'll look to feature and depend on. Hopefully, he'll be here in good sprits and ready to do the things we know he's capable of doing. But who knows? It's certainly beyond my hands."

 

Gilbride said he has spoken to Shockey recently, but still remains unsure of the situation because of what he's hearing.

 

"Ninety percent of it is coming from you guys and just listening and reading and hearing what you guys are saying and hearing what our organization's responses are to your inquiries," Gilbride said. "When I spoke to him, I just told him, in essence, I hope he comes back and if he does come back I'm looking forward to working with him and I think his teammates and coaches all feel like I do - that we'll be a better football team because he's here. And I just wanted to make sure he understood that."

 

Gilbride wouldn't say what Shockey's feelings were on the matter, particularly when asked if he wants to come back and if he likes his role in the offense.

 

"It wouldn't be fair for me to divulge what was said by him and I would feel very uncomfortable doing that. I would feel like I was betraying his confidence," Gilbride said. "But we had a good talk and, again, the most important thing is I wanted him to know the way I felt."

 

When pressed on the issue of Shockey's role in the offense, Gilbride said, "Again, I don't feel real comfortable commenting on the exchange of ideas I came from him. I can tell you what I said. I just wanted him to know there's a place for him here and I think we're a better football team when he's here and as far as I'm concerned, he's an integral part of what we're doing."

 

Gilbride did have an interesting take on how much Shockey's absence while injured last season actually helped Eli Manning.

 

"Rather than Jeremy leaving, it was more of Steve Smith coming back," Gilbride said. "That's what a lot of people don't realize. It was Steve Smith's return. If you looked at the Dallas game in our opener he did some good things. He caught the pass on the third-down conversion and then all of a sudden we don't have him again until Buffalo. And then, he comes back and little by little ... I thought his emergence really helped (Manning) and also the entire group contributed. I thought the line played better, I thought Steve Smith's addition (helped) and I thought Kevin Boss did some good things. A lot of those guys played a little bit better and the supporting cast - I hate to use that term - but the supporting cast played better, which I thought allowed Eli to showcase his abilities more effectively."

 

MG

 

http://blog.nj.com/ledgergiants/2008/05/ev...about_sh_2.html

[fishgutmartyr]

yes... I see a big difference. Toomer was quoted he wanted the ball more often. And the other quote came from 'someone who wishes to be nameless'.

I've included a transcript from an interview with his agent that came out a few days after the 'someone who wishes to be nameless' article that has the agent saying "the ball is in the Giant's court." There is xxi-xxv's article, and there is another with Gilbride hoping he comes back, even though he knows that Shockey isn't traded.

 

This is a far larger clusterfuck than anything Toomer has ever done or said. And all Shockey has to do is say that he's not looking to be traded, but if the Giants do, it's out of his hands. All of this goes away.