I've suspected as much since the Miami game...

[Lubeck]

You said "no one".

 

Drops are irrelevant? Well I can't even discuss the issue if you are committed to that belief.

[fishgutmartyr]

You can say any Qb's numbers would be better if you added up all his dropped passes. Silly to even bring it up.

 

Btw, No one says he is Ryan Leaf and no one expects him to be Peyton, but its not out of reality to be upset that he is not even Matt Hasselbeck at this point. A good playoffs will help him off last nights game tremendously, nowits time for him to do it.

 

47 drops over a course of a season is significant. Normally, I'd agree with you about dropped passes, but when your receivers lead the league in that statistic, that is a big problem.

 

Last year Jacksonville had that dubious honor. Their wide receivers were lambasted, and they went out and got Northcutt (OK, not the greatest of acquisitions, but they worked on their personnel). Matt Jones was knocked down in the depth chart. You might argue that they got rid of Leftwich as well, but he was already on the outs with Del Rio for his inability to stay on the field, and these guys kept the drops going with other QBs playing.

 

Drops do happen over the course of a season, that's understood. But even cutting that statistic in half next season improves Manning's rating significantly, and would improve his td totals, considering that there were quite a few drops in or within a couple yards of the end zone.

 

Again, not the only problem, but a factor to be considered. Just like some of the weaknesses in Gilbride's offensive scheme, and Eli's own failures in mechanics, and horrible tendency to throw half-assed passes to avoid sacks, when maybe just taking the 3-4 yard loss is the better answer; add into the equation.

[xxi-xxv]

47 drops over a course of a season is significant. Normally, I'd agree with you about dropped passes, but when your receivers lead the league in that statistic, that is a big problem.

 

Last year Jacksonville had that dubious honor. Their wide receivers were lambasted, and they went out and got Northcutt (OK, not the greatest of acquisitions, but they worked on their personnel). Matt Jones was knocked down in the depth chart. You might argue that they got rid of Leftwich as well, but he was already on the outs with Del Rio for his inability to stay on the field, and these guys kept the drops going with other QBs playing.

 

Drops do happen over the course of a season, that's understood. But even cutting that statistic in half next season improves Manning's rating significantly, and would improve his td totals, considering that there were quite a few drops in or within a couple yards of the end zone.

 

Again, not the only problem, but a factor to be considered. Just like some of the weaknesses in Gilbride's offensive scheme, and Eli's own failures in mechanics, and horrible tendency to throw half-assed passes to avoid sacks, when maybe just taking the 3-4 yard loss is the better answer; add into the equation.

 

Yes Fish 47 is a very significant number, but we just cant say, well if you take them away then he is this, it just does not work that way. I cannot stand the constant exuses that are made for the lack of development from this guy. Take the 12 fumbles? Do we say, well if he played in a Dome he would not have 12 fumbles since the elements have been the reason. It is the proverbial Is what it is thing. He has a 70 rating and lets just give him what the league average is for drop, what is he then? 75? Not exactly world beating, nor worthy of what this guy cost.

[fringe]

There was a 'drop' by Toomer last night. At first it looked like it was right between the numbers but then I watched the replay. Granted it was a drop but the pass was a bit behind him, causing him to adjust his route and waddled like a duck on the way to him. Now I know he should have caught it and they can't all be spirals but can some be spirals?

[fishgutmartyr]

Yes Fish 47 is a very significant number, but we just cant say, well if you take them away then he is this, it just does not work that way. I cannot stand the constant exuses that are made for the lack of development from this guy. Take the 12 fumbles? Do we say, well if he played in a Dome he would not have 12 fumbles since the elements have been the reason. It is the proverbial Is what it is thing. He has a 70 rating and lets just give him what the league average is for drop, what is he then? 75? Not exactly world beating, nor worthy of what this guy cost.

 

You're absolutely right, you can't just say "take them away then he is this." But we can recognize it as a serious problem to the passing game, and see the need to cut that number considerably next season. I tried to convey that in my previous post, but I guess I didn't.

 

I'm not saying you're entirely wrong, never have; I'm pointing out that there are a bunch of factors that need to be considered in order to improve the passing game--and part of that includes putting a shoe up eli's ass.

 

Frankly, its no skin off me if Eli is the QB or not, since I'm not his agent. But simply blaming him for all the problems in the passing game is overly simplistic, and won't get the job done next season. That's what I'm interested in, not Eli's career.

 

If you want to discuss whether or not Eli is worth the cost or not, that is an entirely different issue as far as I'm concerned, and I'm in total agreement with you. To date, the bullshit to joy ratio is way out of whack.

[xxi-xxv]

You're absolutely right, you can't just say "take them away then he is this." But we can recognize it as a serious problem to the passing game, and see the need to cut that number considerably next season. I tried to convey that in my previous post, but I guess I didn't.

 

I'm not saying you're entirely wrong, never have; I'm pointing out that there are a bunch of factors that need to be considered in order to improve the passing game--and part of that includes putting a shoe up eli's ass.

 

Frankly, its no skin off me if Eli is the QB or not, since I'm not his agent. But simply blaming him for all the problems in the passing game is overly simplistic, and won't get the job done next season. That's what I'm interested in, not Eli's career.

 

If you want to discuss whether or not Eli is worth the cost or not, that is an entirely different issue as far as I'm concerned, and I'm in total agreement with you. To date, the bullshit to joy ratio is way out of whack.

 

Agreed, but I do hope we can see more consitency in line as to what we saw last night. Of course I do not expect 4td games all the time, but more consistent play would be great and a huge step.

[Nesta]

It's already been stated in here a few times. This stat is not an EXCUSE for Eli, it's just another problem with this offense. Is it insignificant? No.

 

People have expected Peyton from this kid from day one. And recently very many have been calling him a bust (not Leaf exactly but a bust is a bust).

 

I wasn't claiming those were your words xxi.

 

What is insignificant, at this point, is the fact he isn't worth his contract or the trade. Not much we can do about either this season.

[Allstarjim]

Everyone that has commented here is correct. One thing I would like to add is that drops are not always on the receiver. The QB has the responsibility of getting the ball in the best place for the receiver to make the catch. Some drops are greater than others. Eli's propensity to throw wobblers and/or inaccurate passes have been a big contributor to that number being 47. Just as much, I would say, as the receivers not making the play.

[fishgutmartyr]

Agreed, but I do hope we can see more consitency in line as to what we saw last night. Of course I do not expect 4td games all the time, but more consistent play would be great and a huge step.

I hear you--if only he had this performance against Minnesota, we'd have clinched weeks ago!

[Chuck Wagon]

Here is what I notice about Eli’s happy feet…it occurs after a receiver does t-Rex on over the middle routes or drop an easy ball.

 

Here is what I notice when the receivers are dropping balls…it usually follows an Eli pass he short hops or one where he totally exposed a prior receive to SS/LB sandwich because he got happy feet in the pocket and tosses a bad ball at them.

 

I don’t know who does it first to put this in motiont…sometimes they take turns.

 

This shit feeds on its self and it is because these guys make one fuck up …two fucks ups…and stop trusting one another. I don’t know if it is on a consciences level or not but when things are going bad sometimes there is no “I’m going to stand in this pocket no matter what shot I have coming until you clear and aren’t going to get clobbered because I know you will catch the ball and make it worth it”….or “I’m going to catch that ball where ever you throw it as I trust you did what you had to do and aren’t going to get me Daryl Stingley’d.”

 

None of these guys are pussies…not by a long shot. You don’t play football at the level they have, for as long as they have and be a coward.

 

What they are – again, maybe not even knowingly – are actuaries. “Why should I take this shot on a throw my guy might drop.” Or “Why should I go across the middle …right into a SS….because my guy is going to unload it early …or not put enough on it because he is throwing off the baby toe of his back foot cause he don't want to take a shot."

 

It all comes down to who will take the shot for the other guy sometimes. When it is going good...nobody cares...when it not..people start thinking and doing the math.

 

It is all about lapses in trust in one another. They also don’t have a reset…by reset I mean when a lapse in trust occurs you have a receiver you know won’t drop an easy one ...or a hard one....(and they all have done this this year….lots of them) that gets the mojo back in line.

 

This doesn’t’ happen all the time…just some of the time and feds on its self. How long did it take the Giants to reset after S. Moss’ drop?

 

That is why I like that Boss kid….what a set of hands he has…fucking Dave Casper Hands. I think you could toss a ball into a hurricane and he’d catch it like a fireman catching an infant dropped form a window.

 

C. Wagon

 

[Chuck Wagon]

Forgot to add....there also needs to be accountability....when someone drops a ball you stayed in the pocket and got blasted on...you need to give them a new asshole.

 

C. Wagon

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

Forgot to add....there also needs to be accountability....when someone drops a ball you stayed in the pocket and got blasted on...you need to give them a new asshole.

 

C. Wagon

Which is what St. Simms was about....if he just got rocked and you dropped an easy ball....he was going to ask "what the fuck were you doing out there?". And I am not going to get paralyzed on one play to cut short my already shortened NFL career to catch a wounded duck that the SS is ready to eat me up on. Tony Dorsett (though a RB) was real good at laying the ball on the ground after a couple of good creams. His philosophy was better they go after the ball than him. Franco Harris was Mr. Sideline to sideline. I never saw him take a full flush on hit when he could avoid it.

[Nas]

No but Eli does crumble under pressure. You could tell the O was going south in 3rd quarter when Eli started getting constantly pressured. Also WRs bail him out with great catches, like Plax's TD, so it's a wash. Also how many ducks have been dropped. I am no Eli hater but he has issues for sure. When he gets too much pressure he should be dropped into shotgun formations. This seems to get him back into a groove.

 

I don't think that's true at all. I can argue for the opposite.

 

I still recall that game in SD. I recall our game against Denver.. or that come from behind win in Philly...

[Nas]

I can't argue with the pressure. Look at Brady. He plays to a higher level when he's not getting pressure.

Come to think of it, every qb does.

 

The wr's bail eli out a few times in each game, that's true, but they also lead the league in drops.

The drops, at least this year, are certainly the more common occurence.

 

You mean to tell me a WR catching the ball is considered "bailing out"

 

If anything our WR hardly ever make tough catches. The way I see it, the ball doesn't have to be thrown between the #s for a receiver to catch the damn ball.

[NightFire]

You mean to tell me a WR catching the ball is considered "bailing out"

 

If anything our WR hardly ever make tough catches. The way I see it, the ball doesn't have to be thrown between the #s for a receiver to catch the damn ball.

 

Are you kidding? Some of Plax's catches have been un-fucking believable. Some posters have been saying that you can't say how Eli's stats would be with this or that changing but I can unequivocally say that without some of thse circus catches (seems like 1 a game) Eli's stats would be even worse. Plax maybe Relaxico but when it's near him he can make some amazing catches (Toomer's good at the layout catch also). I think the drops are more that the receivers are surprised that the ball is actually near them.

[Treehugger]

If anything our WR hardly ever make tough catches. The way I see it, the ball doesn't have to be thrown between the #s for a receiver to catch the damn ball.

Somewhere within their wingspan would be nice though.

 

Eli started out the year throwing lasers, hard and flat, then switched to softer inaccurate passes midseason. Last game he came out throwing the lasers again, really nice to see and soooo much more accurate.

[Nas]

Somewhere within their wingspan would be nice though.

 

Eli started out the year throwing lasers, hard and flat, then switched to softer inaccurate passes midseason. Last game he came out throwing the lasers again, really nice to see and soooo much more accurate.

 

As the temp gets colder, Eli's throws get worse... the weather was ideal against NE.. and he played well. Not so well in Buffalo..

 

Now in TB, watch him shine...

[Treehugger]

As the temp gets colder, Eli's throws get worse... the weather was ideal against NE.. and he played well. Not so well in Buffalo..

 

Now in TB, watch him shine...

I think the two are coincedental. His whole action seems different.

[RandolphScott]

I think the two are coincedental. His whole action seems different.

 

 

I agree. It seems whenever he wears long sleeves he is totally off the mark.

[gateb]

Are you kidding? Some of Plax's catches have been un-fucking believable. Some posters have been saying that you can't say how Eli's stats would be with this or that changing but I can unequivocally say that without some of thse circus catches (seems like 1 a game) Eli's stats would be even worse. Plax maybe Relaxico but when it's near him he can make some amazing catches (Toomer's good at the layout catch also). I think the drops are more that the receivers are surprised that the ball is actually near them.

He doesnt really have one circus catch a game nowadays.

[NeMesiS]

As the temp gets colder, Eli's throws get worse... the weather was ideal against NE.. and he played well. Not so well in Buffalo..

 

Now in TB, watch him shine...

Shine...I'll have to see how the O-line performs first.

[Herc]

i dont know if it's possible for eli to have a monster game. if coughlin is smart he runs the ball down tampa's throat all game long and doesn't deviate from that plan. if he's not, eli will throw a ton against one of the best pass defenses in football. throw in the fact that he'll have a new center and has issues when his surrounding conditions are not ideal + an already present fumbling problem and i'd be a bit skeptical. in dallas? definitely, in tampa? im not so sure