ksm7 Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 OK, so the Italian Hotdog wants to break away from the Manning debates, at least for the time being...if the Giants struggle from the out-set, does Coughlin finish the year? part two of the Dog's question if you would be so bold: If Coughlin is out by the season's end, who would Giant fans like to see be the next coach? Now we can have open minded discussion, as per earlier requests...Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayD Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Anyone less than BB just wont do. If we cant get him, I'd rather stay with Coughlin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 i'll take anyone over coughlin. as far as im concerned he shouldn't be the coach this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 i'll take anyone over coughlin. as far as im concerned he shouldn't be the coach this season What he said. For the new coach? I's hard to say really, maybe Ron Rivera, Mike Singletary. Offensive guys, I really have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treehugger Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Fox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 i'll take anyone over coughlin. as far as im concerned he shouldn't be the coach this season Interesting - should the Giants make the playoffs, the Dog wonders, does Coughlin earn a stay of execution? The Dog has to believe that a first round exit will not keep him around, unless the pool is shallow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadEgg Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Interesting - should the Giants make the playoffs, the Dog wonders, does Coughlin earn a stay of execution? The Dog has to believe that a first round exit will not keep him around, unless the pool is shallow... Archie Manning should be their coach so he can better protect his son from the cold, harsh world... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Interesting - should the Giants make the playoffs, the Dog wonders, does Coughlin earn a stay of execution? The Dog has to believe that a first round exit will not keep him around, unless the pool is shallow... The kid reckons with the dog that he is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Interesting - should the Giants make the playoffs, the Dog wonders, does Coughlin earn a stay of execution? The Dog has to believe that a first round exit will not keep him around, unless the pool is shallow... i can't feel good about him coming back if the giants make the playoffs and lose in the first round. i didn't want him back after that result last season so i certainly wouldn't want him back after 3 straight years of first round exits. besides, it was no large accomplishment to make the playoffs as the last seed in the NFC last season and it probably won't be this season either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 Archie Manning should be their coach so he can better protect his son from the cold, harsh world... The Dog guesses Archie Manning would rather be the general manager then the coach...this way he could orchestrate trades free of the binding restraints one has as being someone's father... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 i can't feel good about him coming back if the giants make the playoffs and lose in the first round. i didn't want him back after that result last season so i certainly wouldn't want him back after 3 straight years of first round exits. besides, it was no large accomplishment to make the playoffs as the last seed in the NFC last season and it probably won't be this season either Another point of interest - with the players being displeased, and with the production being average at best, the Dog cannot figure out why he was in fact hired back this season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Another point of interest - with the players being displeased, and with the production being average at best, the Dog cannot figure out why he was in fact hired back this season... He was obviously given the benefit of the doubt in terms of the rash of injuries that crippled the team after the 6-2 start (Toomer, Osi, STrahan, Madison, Pettigout, Arrignton) just to name a few. Whether this was right or not is open for debate, but I have to think that that is what the organizations thinking was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 He was obviously given the benefit of the doubt in terms of the rash of injuries that crippled the team after the 6-2 start (Toomer, Osi, STrahan, Madison, Pettigout, Arrignton) just to name a few. Whether this was right or not is open for debate, but I have to think that that is what the organizations thinking was. Fair enough...although the Dog does grow weary of the injury issue...either way, it does appear he is on borrowed time, and the pressure is on for the Giants to get a coach in for the long hall...if a new coach did come in, the Dog wonders if house cleaning will be in order...and if so, is someone like Shockey a potential casuality...what an intriguing soap opera this has become... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Another point of interest - with the players being displeased, and with the production being average at best, the Dog cannot figure out why he was in fact hired back this season... your guess is as good as mine. the owners' kids dont seem to have any balls at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 i dont think it's right that coughlin was given the benefit of the doubt due to injuries, yet fassel wasn't despite a way better resume with the team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayD Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 i dont think it's right that coughlin was given the benefit of the doubt due to injuries, yet fassel wasn't despite a way better resume with the team Thats just cause you are like most NY fans, impatient, and well just down right unrealistic. The man has only been here 3 years, with 2 playoff appearences, and a division championship. All this starting with a 4-12 team, a rookie QB, and has had over half his team injured every year he's been here so far. Fassel has NEVER had back to back playoff appearences, and has handed us the 2 most humiliating post season losses in Giants history. Yea some resume. We could do ALOT worse than Coughlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 i dont think it's right that coughlin was given the benefit of the doubt due to injuries, yet fassel wasn't despite a way better resume with the team You are talking about 2003 and yes Fassel got now leeway with those injuries in 2003, but I think his firing was an extension of the way 2002 ended as well. If the Giants tank in 2007, have a plethora of injuries and Coughlin gets fired it will be as much about 2006 and the way it ended as it will be 2007 and the injuries. I have heard from a few people that know people that know people(for what thats worth) that the Giants wanted to fire Fassel right after the 2002 playoff loss in San Fran. It was no secret apparently that he old man was not a huge fan of his and according to these same people it was the Tischs(through the close friendship with Barber, an ardent Fassel supporter) that Mara was able to be talked out of this. Now again this is heresay, but I also was told of a story when the old man saw Fassel with his 2000 NFC champ game ring on Mara asked him what that was, when told what it was Mara said something along the lines of we do not wear that here as second place is like last place as far as we go. According to these same people, the old man never liked him and this is one of the reasons that Fassel will probably never sniff a HC gig in the NFL again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 You are talking about 2003 and yes Fassel got now leeway with those injuries in 2003, but I think his firing was an extension of the way 2002 ended as well. If the Giants tank in 2007, have a plethora of injuries and Coughlin gets fired it will be as much about 2006 and the way it ended as it will be 2007 and the injuries. I have heard from a few people that know people that know people(for what thats worth) that the Giants wanted to fire Fassel right after the 2002 playoff loss in San Fran. It was no secret apparently that he old man was not a huge fan of his and according to these same people it was the Tischs(through the close friendship with Barber, an ardent Fassel supporter) that Mara was able to be talked out of this. Now again this is heresay, but I also was told of a story when the old man saw Fassel with his 2000 NFC champ game ring on Mara asked him what that was, when told what it was Mara said something along the lines of we do not wear that here as second place is like last place as far as we go. According to these same people, the old man never liked him and this is one of the reasons that Fassel will probably never sniff a HC gig in the NFL again. that's a horseshit statement by mara, cuz all he ever asks from the giants is that the last home game of the season be meaningful (IE, possibly get them into the playoffs). i figured it was that sort of standard that led to coughlin retaining his job this past season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Thats just cause you are like most NY fans, impatient, and well just down right unrealistic. The man has only been here 3 years, with 2 playoff appearences, and a division championship. All this starting with a 4-12 team, a rookie QB, and has had over half his team injured every year he's been here so far. Fassel has NEVER had back to back playoff appearences, and has handed us the 2 most humiliating post season losses in Giants history. Yea some resume. We could do ALOT worse than Coughlin we would've made the playoffs back-to-back if fassel was running the team when the NFC was this pathetic. we went 8-8 after a playoff season under fassel but it wasn't enough to make the playoffs. you need to open your eyes and actually watch some games if you honestly think coughlin has done a good job here. when he gets us out of the first round (let alone to the superbowl) then you can start talking about him in the same sentence as jim fassel. i think someone who shits on a coach who brought his favorite team to the superbowl is the impatient one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 i just realized this is going to turn into a coughlin vs fassel thread and that my usual tag team partner in these debates, boohyah, hasn't been around lately. i pre-emptively surrender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 that's a horseshit statement by mara, cuz all he ever asks from the giants is that the last home game of the season be meaningful (IE, possibly get them into the playoffs). i figured it was that sort of standard that led to coughlin retaining his job this past season. I think that "meaningfull" statement is one you have probably heard from Francessa, and yes it is a mantra that the organization set forth going back to the days of the late 70's when by week 8 they were done. I think what you are confusing is that the Giants do not want to celebrate mediocrity. From Maras standpoint he always wanted the fans to have a chance by seasons end, it did not mean that if that chance was squandered it was to be celebrated. In fact I once heard Francessa talk about this on WFAN, I believe when Mara died, convienently when he was interviewing his butt buddy Parcells. Was a segway for Parcells to say he would never do that sort of thing. Regardless who knows, had it not been for a weak NFC in 2000 and an easy sched, Fassel probably would have been gone then. If COughlin does not get as lucky he too will be gone. My guess is he won't. As for Fassel, I know you like him as a coach. Me personally I do not. I have been watching the Giants since 1981 and some of the most putrid losses were on his watch(97 playoffs, 02 playoffs, Dallas MNF 03, Westbrook PR 03). WIth that said he was not an awful coach and had his strongpoints. WHy do you think it is that this guy cannot even sniff a job now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 i dont blame them for not wanting to celebrate mediocrity. i would like that statement and that attitude if it weren't for the mantra you mentioned above, it just seems like he wasn't staying consistent with his attitude towards his team in that one instance because he didn't like the coach. and i understand why fassel was fired, i wont argue that, but i will argue that he's done a better job than coughlin. and im a pretty patient fan too (too young for giants super bowls, padres fan), but i know a lousy coach when i see one and coughlin fits the mold to a T. did you hear he did several off the record one-on-one's with ny media members to learn how to get along better with the media (obviously so they wont call for his head again)? pathetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 i dont blame them for not wanting to celebrate mediocrity. i would like that statement and that attitude if it weren't for the mantra you mentioned above, it just seems like he wasn't staying consistent with his attitude towards his team in that one instance because he didn't like the coach. and i understand why fassel was fired, i wont argue that, but i will argue that he's done a better job than coughlin. and im a pretty patient fan too (too young for giants super bowls, padres fan), but i know a lousy coach when i see one and coughlin fits the mold to a T. did you hear he did several off the record one-on-one's with ny media members to learn how to get along better with the media (obviously so they wont call for his head again)? pathetic That one on one shit was stuff the front ofice wanted. I could care less how he or any coach gets along with a media, infested with a bunch of "never dressed for gym" pussies. That goes for Coughlin, Fassel, Handley whoever. As far as Fassels success with the team, Coughlin as least has to get to year 4 of his tenure to determine that because that was the year Fassel go to to earn his long term extension. As for him being a lousy coach, you are probably in the minority on that one. Most football people I have listened to hold him in high regards. Me? I am not crazy about him, but I do not think he is lousy. Herm Edwards is lousy, Ray Handley, etc guys like that. In hindsight I do not think he was the guy for this group of loudmouths whom always have thought they have a better resume and accomplished more then they really have. Putting this guy with this group was like trying to teach an old dog new tricks. It just was never gonna work. If this core was gonna stay the core post 2003, then probably Coughlin was not the man. He is better suited for a younger, up and coming team where he can shape them. This team was not going to have that. I am starting to think that breaking up this core earlier might have been the better route, possibly for Fassel as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 i just realized this is going to turn into a coughlin vs fassel thread and that my usual tag team partner in these debates, boohyah, hasn't been around lately. i pre-emptively surrender good because i was about to put serious blemish on your perfect record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 good because i was about to put serious blemish on your perfect record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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