fringe Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 http://www.forbes.com/home/sportsbusiness/...tgms_slide.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 that list is a joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted April 23, 2007 Author Share Posted April 23, 2007 that list is a joke the towers snub? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted April 23, 2007 Author Share Posted April 23, 2007 dupe, dope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 nah, i expected towers to not be on that list as i am used to padres players and recent padres teams being overlooked and slept on. while i do like him he sucks at drafting, the farm system sucks right now and even though he eventually traded mirabelli back to boston 3 mo's later for meredith and bard he STILL did that intial trade of loretta for mirabelli. schurholtz should be #1. theo shouldn't be on the list--he's been garbage since the world series (see trade above for one of many examples). and yeah, omar's made all the right moves, but trading with a team that's having a firesale (delgado, lo duca) and outspending everyone else for top free agents is something you're supposed to do when you are gm for the yanks, mets, and boston. you either do what you are supposed to do when you have resources like that or you're steve phillips. pat gillick? are they seriously saying pat gillick is a GOOD gm by making the thome trade? yeah thome had to be traded by the return sucked. rowand's a good player but he's basically jim edmonds pre-steroids, all glove and no bat. certainly not worthy of a player who was by far the first half AL mvp last season AND cash. and the white sox got back one of the prospects they traded to them this offseason anyway. and mike flanigan? come on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 nah, i expected towers to not be on that list as i am used to padres players and . while i do like him he sucks at drafting, the farm system sucks right now and even though he eventually traded mirabelli back to boston 3 mo's later for meredith and bard he STILL did that intial trade of loretta for mirabelli. schurholtz should be #1. theo shouldn't be on the list--he's been garbage since the world series (see trade above for one of many examples). and yeah, omar's made all the right moves, but trading with a team that's having a firesale (delgado, lo duca) and outspending everyone else for top free agents is something you're supposed to do when you are gm for the yanks, mets, and boston. you either do what you are supposed to do when you have resources like that or you're steve phillips. pat gillick? are they seriously saying pat gillick is a GOOD gm by making the thome trade? yeah thome had to be traded by the return sucked. rowand's a good player but he's basically jim edmonds pre-steroids, all glove and no bat. certainly not worthy of a player who was by far the first half AL mvp last season AND cash. and the white sox got back one of the prospects they traded to them this offseason anyway. and mike flanigan? come on... What about the little things? Trading for Shawn Green, signing Jose Valentin, Moises Alou. Trading Kris Anna Benson for John Maine and Orlando Hernandez. All of his big moves nonwithstanding, Omar is one of the best GMs in baseball because of all the smart, unheralded moves he makes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I also forgot the trade last year with the Pirates that brought Ollie Perez to the Mets, who if he keeps it up, will be a stud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted April 23, 2007 Author Share Posted April 23, 2007 i'm surprised about gillick and the guy from baltimore. sabean was good with pitchers but the farm hasn't developed a decent hitter since... matt williams, yikes! the criteria is pretty weird because the author is trying to make it work for all sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 i'm surprised about gillick and the guy from baltimore. sabean was good with pitchers but the farm hasn't developed a decent hitter since... matt williams, yikes! the criteria is pretty weird because the author is trying to make it work for all sports. Gillick is a dumb ass. Sure you could sign and trade for good starting pitching, but if you have no bullpen, it's all for naught. Sabean is good with pitchers, just ask the Minnesota Twins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted April 23, 2007 Author Share Posted April 23, 2007 Our approach defines management acumen as winning improvement and payroll containment above and beyond what a GM inherits upon taking over a team in other words, if your predescesor (sp.) was a loser spendthrift (steve phillips) then you can become a hero easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 in other words, if your predescesor (sp.) was a loser spendthrift (steve phillips) then you can become a hero easily. It wasn't Steve Phillips fault that Roger Cedeno, Jeromy Burnitz, Mo Vaughn and Roberto Alomar were complete busts. Alomar was coming off one of his best years ever in Cleveland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted April 23, 2007 Author Share Posted April 23, 2007 It wasn't Steve Phillips fault that Roger Cedeno, Jeromy Burnitz, Mo Vaughn and Roberto Alomar were complete busts. Alomar was coming off one of his best years ever in Cleveland. well, we're all judged by results on our watch, whether its justified or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 well, we're all judged by results on our watch, whether its justified or not. Agreed. If your going to fault Phillips for anything it's hiring Art Howe as manager, NO ONE, and I repeat NO ONE should hire an ex-Oakland A's manager, they just do as Billie Beane says. I'm convinced that Beane is just satisfied with making the playoffs and not winning a world series, or even a playoff series. Sure moneyball works with a 162 game season, but screws you in a 5 or 7 game series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted April 23, 2007 Author Share Posted April 23, 2007 btw, these slide show lists are annoying. they do that so they can get 9 more pages of advertising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted April 23, 2007 Author Share Posted April 23, 2007 Agreed. If your going to fault Phillips for anything it's hiring Art Howe as manager, NO ONE, and I repeat NO ONE should hire an ex-Oakland A's manager, they just do as Billie Beane says. no one can kneel on the dugout steps and look pensive better than art howe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 What about the little things? Trading for Shawn Green, signing Jose Valentin, Moises Alou. Trading Kris Anna Benson for John Maine and Orlando Hernandez. All of his big moves nonwithstanding, Omar is one of the best GMs in baseball because of all the smart, unheralded moves he makes. cashman and omar are in no-win situations as far as respect goes. they have a competitive advantage over other gm's becuase of the resources available to them, if they underachieve a little they are failures and if they succeed, well they were supposed to. nobody liked the green trade until this season started and im not going to go nuts about him after 3 weeks. the benson deal was good but again that speaks more to why mike flanigan should NOT be on this list. and let's not forget omar made that deal wtih the idea that jorge julio would be a valuable contributor to the mets bullpen and john maine as a throw-in. he's done a good job with his small trades for the most part, but what turned the mets around (besides reyes and wright developing) was beltran and pedro--two guys they outbid everyone else for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 mo vaughn was a horrible idea but alomar was can't miss and the mets managed to hype up wack ass alex escobar enough to pawn him off on a team for a perenial all-star (until he was a met). but phillips drafted wright and signed reyes, didn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 cashman and omar are in no-win situations as far as respect goes. they have a competitive advantage over other gm's becuase of the resources available to them, if they underachieve a little they are failures and if they succeed, well they were supposed to. nobody liked the green trade until this season started and im not going to go nuts about him after 3 weeks. the benson deal was good but again that speaks more to why mike flanigan should NOT be on this list. and let's not forget omar made that deal wtih the idea that jorge julio would be a valuable contributor to the mets bullpen and john maine as a throw-in. he's done a good job with his small trades for the most part, but what turned the mets around (besides reyes and wright developing) was beltran and pedro--two guys they outbid everyone else for. Yes Omar made the deal thinking Julio was going to be a contributor to the bullpen, but when you start calling up scrubs like Jose Lima and Jermi Gonzalez to start games, that's a problem. I loved the Nady deal when it happened, ashame he was traded, I liked him as a player. Yes, Phillips did draft David Wright (thanks to Mike Hampton leaving to Colorado because of the "good school system" and not for the 115 Million dollars) Phillips almost traded Wright for Jose Cruz Jr in 2001. Yes, Phillips did sign Jose Reyes(thanks to Omar Minaya) and was almost traded for Lou Pinella and Roberto Alomar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Giant Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I'm glad jerk off daniels isn't on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted April 23, 2007 Author Share Posted April 23, 2007 I'm glad jerk off daniels isn't on the list. is that the genius who signed Gagme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Giant Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 is that the genius who signed Gagme? Gagne is low risk high reward, we still have Aki thank God. This is the brain trust that traded Chris Young, Soriano for Wilkerson and John Danks for Brandon McCarthy. Yeah it's early but McCarthy has now managed to not make it past the second inning 2 games in a row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Gagne is low risk high reward, we still have Aki thank God. This is the brain trust that traded Chris Young, Soriano for Wilkerson and John Danks for Brandon McCarthy. Yeah it's early but McCarthy has now managed to not make it past the second inning 2 games in a row. And the same guy who traded for a rental in Carlos Lee? Who is the only man who couldn't hit a homer in Arlington stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Giant Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 And the same guy who traded for a rental in Carlos Lee? Who is the only man who couldn't hit a homer in Arlington stadium. Yeah, I wasn't too worried about losing the players we raded at the time, but now it would be nice to have Mench on the bench, although other than that 1 great week wasn't much to speak of last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Gagne is low risk high reward, we still have Aki thank God. This is the brain trust that traded Chris Young, Soriano for Wilkerson and John Danks for Brandon McCarthy. Yeah it's early but McCarthy has now managed to not make it past the second inning 2 games in a row. i think 6 mil's too high to call it a low risk move. it didn't need to be made when they already had a top 15 closer. and all it did was make the young/sledge/gonzalez for otsuka/eaton deal look that much worse since they were sending the message that they didn't have faith in otsuka. now that i bring up this trade i'm thinking that, despite the fact that the padres suck at drafting lately and took matt bush first overall and not verlander or jared weaver, towers should be on the list just for these recent moves: bard/meredith for mirabelli young/sledge/gonzalez for eaton/otsuka heath bell/royce ring for ben johnson cameron for nady that's their starting catcher, 1b, LF, CF, 8th inning setup man, some bullpen depth and 2nd starter (who would be an ace on 20-25 of the other teams in the league) for a team that's won 2 divisions in a row and will be contenders for a 3rd this season. and all they ahd to give up was a backup catcher, an injured starting pitcher who ended up leaving via free agency, a proven setup man, their starting RF, and a backup OF who didn't even make the mets 25 man roster. that's really not bad at all, but as far as im concerned the jury is still out till the dust settles on the kouzmanoff/barfield trade. so far they are both sucking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted April 24, 2007 Author Share Posted April 24, 2007 the only one worth a damn is gonzalez. cameron is dissapointing and the rest of them are #7 hitters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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