I woke up today angry as an LA rioter

[fringe]

I was using terminology that one would find in a white collar job such as yours. I thought you were sharp enough to get that. I have no qualms about people leaving on their own terms. I have even developed a training guide to show candidates how to graciously resign.

I felt Tiki was smug, ungracious and definitely not a team player in the way in which he chose to resign. That's my feeling, has nothing to do with his effort on the field, i'm not questioning that.

[boohyah]

I was using terminology that one would find in a white collar job such as yours. I thought you were sharp enough to get that. I have no qualms about people leaving on their own terms. I have even developed a training guide to show candidates how to graciously resign.

I felt Tiki was smug, ungracious and definitely not a team player in the way in which he chose to resign. That's my feeling, has nothing to do with his effort on the field, i'm not questioning that.

 

You'd have to question you're own sharpness here wouldn't you. There's little comparison between the job Tiki Barber has and the job I have so you cannot reasonably compare the two and if you have written a training guide on how to resign graciously, you'd realize this. You think the same "resigning" procedures exist between my white collar job and someone in Burger King. Maybe they should, but they don't.

 

If Tiki was a team player in simply the effort he put in on the field, that's enough for me. I don't worry about whether or not he spoke to other players on the team on his final day or the opposition, that's not important at all. I'm sure that Tiki is going to completely cut off talking to Jim Finn, his best friend on the team, now that he's left the game.

[fringe]

You'd have to question you're own sharpness here wouldn't you. There's little comparison between the job Tiki Barber has and the job I have so you cannot reasonably compare the two and if you have written a training guide on how to resign graciously, you'd realize this. You think the same "resigning" procedures exist between my white collar job and someone in Burger King. Maybe they should, but they don't.

 

If Tiki was a team player in simply the effort he put in on the field, that's enough for me. I don't worry about whether or not he spoke to other players on the team on his final day or the opposition, that's not important at all. I'm sure that Tiki is going to completely cut off talking to Jim Finn, his best friend on the team, now that he's left the game.

i don't think there's little comparison, there's a right way and a wrong way to do things in life. And yes, the same principles apply whether it's your job or burger king.

we'll have to disagree on tiki, it won't be the first thing we disagree on.

[boohyah]

i don't think there's little comparison, there's a right way and a wrong way to do things in life. And yes, the same principles apply whether it's your job or burger king.

we'll have to disagree on tiki, it won't be the first thing we disagree on.

 

 

You keep bringing up princliples, but there's also a case of, how much effect does this have on anything. Tiki didn't stop midseason, he said he was leaving at the end of it. He then played his guts out until the end of the season. People are way too focused on the way he used the media the way he did, that's neither here or there. If he handed in a envelope with a nice letter telling them he was leaving, as opposed to holding press conferences, the effect remains the same, he won't be back next season, that's all you need to worry about. And you also got advance notice of it, despite the method.

[fringe]

You keep bringing up princliples, but there's also a case of, how much effect does this have on anything. Tiki didn't stop midseason, he said he was leaving at the end of it. He then played his guts out until the end of the season. People are way too focused on the way he used the media the way he did, that's neither here or there. If he handed in a envelope with a nice letter telling them he was leaving, as opposed to holding press conferences, the effect remains the same, he won't be back next season, that's all you need to worry about. And you also got advance notice of it, despite the method.

phew, i'm glad i don't have to worry about anything else, that's a load off. thanks, boo

[boohyah]

phew, i'm glad i don't have to worry about anything else, that's a load off. thanks, boo

 

 

Whatever.

 

you seem to have the same response to everything I write, you pick me up on stuff and then when I respond you act like you could have gave a shit all along. And you were calling me condescending.

[Nas]

Whatever.

 

you seem to have the same response to everything I write, you pick me up on stuff and then when I respond you act like you could have gave a shit all along. And you were calling me condescending.

 

I love you boohyah.

[fringe]

Whatever.

 

you seem to have the same response to everything I write, you pick me up on stuff and then when I respond you act like you could have gave a shit all along. And you were calling me condescending.

the difference between you and me is that I am stating my opinion and that's all it is. It's not my role to sway you. Whereas you think it is your duty to make others accept your opinion.

[boohyah]

I love you boohyah.

 

 

I deserve that one Nas.

[boohyah]

the difference between you and me is that I am stating my opinion and that's all it is. It's not my role to sway you. Whereas you think it is your duty to make others accept your opinion.

 

 

 

Yes, people must value my opinion over all others. Gimme a break. Just because I addressed the other side of the topic does not force anybody to buy into it. I don't think I hold that sort of power over anyone, except maybe my kids and they are wisening up to me already.

 

I do think people here are too bothered by the Tiki incident. That's it and I voiced my opinion, that's all.

[feefifoefum]

I stated I'm not mad at hime for retiring. I'm just not buying into the argument that he carried the team. The O-line opened holes for him to run and in that Redskins game, it's evident the skins wanted better draft pix. I'm not deminishing his athleticism but tell me what runnning back wouldn't burst thru those holes?

 

He took advantage of the situation and that's good for him but I do expect a certain level of loyalty. Maybe I'm one of those old-fashion people who put others ahead. And that's why I expected him to handle his retirement better than he did.

 

I don't hate the guy but I have no love for him either.

 

Ron Dayne...

[xxi-xxv]

2 days later I am not as angry, more sad, sad that we will not have Tiki to watch play anymore.

 

At this point its over with, hard to believe he is retired and if someone told me this 4 months ago and made a wager I would be deep in debt. As Chris Rock says, "it am what it be".

 

Just sad to see him go, but at this point looking forward to seeing the run game in 07 minus Tiki.

[Allstarjim]

This is ridiculous. I can't believe what I'm hearing from some of you. Some of you saying he used the Giants and media, others saying that he was disinterested in games since his announcement of his retirement, and that he was disinterested in the playoff game. I don't post a lot anymore, but this topic got me going. And that Tiki is an "iffy" hall of famer? And worse, that Tiki is SELFISH? All of this is nonsensical. Tiki is probably my favorite football player of all-time, and I'll tell you why, and why you guys are incorrect in characterizing Tiki the way you have.

 

First, with regard to him acting disinterested or not playing hard, that's just dumb (no offense) he yet again had one of his finest seasons. The stats were already posted, I will not post again. What specific plays come to mind that he did not play hard? Without Tiki, we wouldn't even have sniffed the playoffs, because it sure as hell wasn't Eli lifting us to victory, and the defense was inconsistent. Without Tiki, we don't win 5 games this year. I specifically remember Tiki in the playoff game giving second effort to get a critical first down, and he had a fantastic game as well. His run to give us 1st and goal at the 4 was vintage Tiki, yet we had to settle for a field goal thanks to Eli making bad decisions on where to throw the ball. All year Tiki has been sure handed and at times was virtually our entire offense, in both the running and passing game. After Amani went down it was Tiki who became the security blanket out of the backfield for Eli, and Many times Tiki would take that 2 yard pass and turn it into 7 to 10 yards fighting for the first down. Tiki always would get another yard and a half or so after the initial hit, and his ability to keep moving forward was underappreciated, and you will see that next year, hopefully Jacobs was taking notes. There is no reason to suggest Tiki was underperforming. I think when it came to game time, Tiki left it all out on the field. He said he hopes he will be remembered for that by the Giants fans, and I certainly will.

 

As for the New York media and the Giants, Tiki made himself. There have been plenty of great Giants players that did not make use of the NY media, and plenty of players in other cities that have turned their fame into lucrative TV deals, to mention a few, Steve Young, Troy Aikman, Shannon Sharpe, Tom Jackson, Howie Long, Chris Collingsworth, and the list goes on and on and on. Tiki worked hard and seized opportunities that were available to him when they came to him. For that, he should be considered a role model and admired. If you were giving career advice, you would certainly say, look at Tiki Barber and what he did, emulate him. Many other players don't have the smarts or motivation to do what Tiki did. Some have the attitude that they are set for life, why do they need to worry about a second career? And they will get out of the NFL and not have anything to do with themselves. Tiki was smart about it and planned for his life after football, and took the opportunities that were there. That's intelligence, not selfishness. And more evidence to the fact that it was Tiki's drive more than NY doing for him... Tiki earned his Bachelor's Degree in Science and Commerce at the University of Virginia, an highly regarded academic institution. He was also his high school class valedictorian. This is a man who is a do-er, who sets goals for himself and works hard to accomplish them. He had already acheived a lot for himself even before he was drafted by the NY Giants.

 

Speaking of selfishness, Tiki has given much of himself. He and his brother this past year made a $1 million donation to the University of Virginia, Tiki has participated in reading programs for kids, as well as a host of other charitable causes and community involvement. But there is one story about Tiki that tells me of his character and his unselfishness:

 

Many players who make it to the Pro Bowl see the trip as a paid vacation in Hawaii for themselves and their families. It's an exhibition game, you get a big bonus for going usually from your team, plus money for playing in the game from the NFL. Plus you're not expected to play that hard or take the game that seriously, it's more of a relaxation time for players and their families more than anything else. At his hotel in Hawaii, Tiki was approached by a Captain in the US Army stationed there in Hawaii, I believe at Schofield barracks. This Captain invited Tiki to do morning PT with his unit the following morning. As many of you know, PT is performed at 5:30 am-6:00 am at the latest, sometimes earlier. It's done before the sun comes up, while most of us are still catching z's. On such short notice especially, most players would've declined the offer, because who wants to get up that early on their vacation in Hawaii to run 3 miles or so the following day? Tiki did a great thing though, by taking that commander up, and ran with the troops on his Hawaii vacation. Of course it was made into a big deal by the unit, and the media ran a little story, but it was not a PR gesture at all, IMO. It was an unplanned opportunity to do something nice for the troops, and I will never forget that Tiki is the kind of man who will wake up at 4:30am and run with some Army soldiers while on a Hawaii vacation. That is an unselfish, generally all-around good guy.

 

Has Tiki been perfect? No. I don't expect that of anybody. I'm also sure it's difficult to bite your tongue when you are giving so much of yourself to win, especially when you are constantly hammered by the NY and national media. He is not alone in sticking the proverbial foot in his mouth this year. Shockey, Burress, Strahan, and even Coughlin himself have said things "in the media" they shouldn't have. Really, they are just answering questions they are being asked. It's the reporters that blow the comments into huge news stories. But they have to know that their words can be inflammated on a national level. So he's made mistakes in that department. Again, I don't think that indicts him as anything but someone who just answered questions honestly.

 

As for Tiki's hall of fame chances, he will be a first ballot inductee, no doubt in my mind. He is certainly not an "iffy" proposition for the Hall. Consider that there are only 5 players in NFL history that have 400 receptions and 10,000 yards rushing. Tiki is one of them. Walter Payton, Marshall Faulk, Marcus Allen, and Thurman Thomas, all current or future Hall of Famers, are the other four. He also holds pretty much every Giants non-passing, offensive related record. If he had won a single SuperBowl, nobody would even have any debate, but I don't think that fact will keep him out of the Hall from the first ballot he's eligible.

 

I am saddened that Tiki is choosing to retire. But I respect that decision. He is ready for life after football. He is not wavering in his decision. Good for him, he is a man that will be successful in anything he chooses to do, just as he always has. He has a wonderful second career in front of him, and I wish him the best, and thank him for the memories I will have of him in a NY Giant uniform. He is one of the only Giants whose jersey I would buy and wear with pride (as I have). I wish he would play another year or two, because he is still at the top of his game. But the thing you guys have to remember is that the reason that players (particularly running backs) taper off at some point is because their bodies have taken too much of a beating over the years and they live with the pain for the rest of their lives. He is leaving while he still has a healthy body, and healthy legs. None of you have a Demarcus Ware knocking you out before you hit the ground, none of you have Jeremiah Trotter going after your knees every Sunday. Tiki played his heart out for us, left it all out on the field, and is choosing to leave at a time when he is still on top. He's not leaving like some other players who have nothing left and you watch them sadly play at a level that is a mere shadow of their former selves.

 

In my mind, Tiki is the greatest Giant we've ever had on the offensive side of the ball, and I will miss seeing him play, wish he would change his mind, but wish him nothing but the best!

[boohyah]

This is ridiculous. I can't believe what I'm hearing from some of you. Some of you saying he used the Giants and media, others saying that he was disinterested in games since his announcement of his retirement, and that he was disinterested in the playoff game. I don't post a lot anymore, but this topic got me going. And that Tiki is an "iffy" hall of famer? And worse, that Tiki is SELFISH? All of this is nonsensical. Tiki is probably my favorite football player of all-time, and I'll tell you why, and why you guys are incorrect in characterizing Tiki the way you have.

 

First, with regard to him acting disinterested or not playing hard, that's just dumb (no offense) he yet again had one of his finest seasons. The stats were already posted, I will not post again. What specific plays come to mind that he did not play hard? Without Tiki, we wouldn't even have sniffed the playoffs, because it sure as hell wasn't Eli lifting us to victory, and the defense was inconsistent. Without Tiki, we don't win 5 games this year. I specifically remember Tiki in the playoff game giving second effort to get a critical first down, and he had a fantastic game as well. His run to give us 1st and goal at the 4 was vintage Tiki, yet we had to settle for a field goal thanks to Eli making bad decisions on where to throw the ball. All year Tiki has been sure handed and at times was virtually our entire offense, in both the running and passing game. After Amani went down it was Tiki who became the security blanket out of the backfield for Eli, and Many times Tiki would take that 2 yard pass and turn it into 7 to 10 yards fighting for the first down. Tiki always would get another yard and a half or so after the initial hit, and his ability to keep moving forward was underappreciated, and you will see that next year, hopefully Jacobs was taking notes. There is no reason to suggest Tiki was underperforming. I think when it came to game time, Tiki left it all out on the field. He said he hopes he will be remembered for that by the Giants fans, and I certainly will.

 

As for the New York media and the Giants, Tiki made himself. There have been plenty of great Giants players that did not make use of the NY media, and plenty of players in other cities that have turned their fame into lucrative TV deals, to mention a few, Steve Young, Troy Aikman, Shannon Sharpe, Tom Jackson, Howie Long, Chris Collingsworth, and the list goes on and on and on. Tiki worked hard and seized opportunities that were available to him when they came to him. For that, he should be considered a role model and admired. If you were giving career advice, you would certainly say, look at Tiki Barber and what he did, emulate him. Many other players don't have the smarts or motivation to do what Tiki did. Some have the attitude that they are set for life, why do they need to worry about a second career? And they will get out of the NFL and not have anything to do with themselves. Tiki was smart about it and planned for his life after football, and took the opportunities that were there. That's intelligence, not selfishness. And more evidence to the fact that it was Tiki's drive more than NY doing for him... Tiki earned his Bachelor's Degree in Science and Commerce at the University of Virginia, an highly regarded academic institution. He was also his high school class valedictorian. This is a man who is a do-er, who sets goals for himself and works hard to accomplish them. He had already acheived a lot for himself even before he was drafted by the NY Giants.

 

Speaking of selfishness, Tiki has given much of himself. He and his brother this past year made a $1 million donation to the University of Virginia, Tiki has participated in reading programs for kids, as well as a host of other charitable causes and community involvement. But there is one story about Tiki that tells me of his character and his unselfishness:

 

Many players who make it to the Pro Bowl see the trip as a paid vacation in Hawaii for themselves and their families. It's an exhibition game, you get a big bonus for going usually from your team, plus money for playing in the game from the NFL. Plus you're not expected to play that hard or take the game that seriously, it's more of a relaxation time for players and their families more than anything else. At his hotel in Hawaii, Tiki was approached by a Captain in the US Army stationed there in Hawaii, I believe at Schofield barracks. This Captain invited Tiki to do morning PT with his unit the following morning. As many of you know, PT is performed at 5:30 am-6:00 am at the latest, sometimes earlier. It's done before the sun comes up, while most of us are still catching z's. On such short notice especially, most players would've declined the offer, because who wants to get up that early on their vacation in Hawaii to run 3 miles or so the following day? Tiki did a great thing though, by taking that commander up, and ran with the troops on his Hawaii vacation. Of course it was made into a big deal by the unit, and the media ran a little story, but it was not a PR gesture at all, IMO. It was an unplanned opportunity to do something nice for the troops, and I will never forget that Tiki is the kind of man who will wake up at 4:30am and run with some Army soldiers while on a Hawaii vacation. That is an unselfish, generally all-around good guy.

 

Has Tiki been perfect? No. I don't expect that of anybody. I'm also sure it's difficult to bite your tongue when you are giving so much of yourself to win, especially when you are constantly hammered by the NY and national media. He is not alone in sticking the proverbial foot in his mouth this year. Shockey, Burress, Strahan, and even Coughlin himself have said things "in the media" they shouldn't have. Really, they are just answering questions they are being asked. It's the reporters that blow the comments into huge news stories. But they have to know that their words can be inflammated on a national level. So he's made mistakes in that department. Again, I don't think that indicts him as anything but someone who just answered questions honestly.

 

As for Tiki's hall of fame chances, he will be a first ballot inductee, no doubt in my mind. He is certainly not an "iffy" proposition for the Hall. Consider that there are only 5 players in NFL history that have 400 receptions and 10,000 yards rushing. Tiki is one of them. Walter Payton, Marshall Faulk, Marcus Allen, and Thurman Thomas, all current or future Hall of Famers, are the other four. He also holds pretty much every Giants non-passing, offensive related record. If he had won a single SuperBowl, nobody would even have any debate, but I don't think that fact will keep him out of the Hall from the first ballot he's eligible.

 

I am saddened that Tiki is choosing to retire. But I respect that decision. He is ready for life after football. He is not wavering in his decision. Good for him, he is a man that will be successful in anything he chooses to do, just as he always has. He has a wonderful second career in front of him, and I wish him the best, and thank him for the memories I will have of him in a NY Giant uniform. He is one of the only Giants whose jersey I would buy and wear with pride (as I have). I wish he would play another year or two, because he is still at the top of his game. But the thing you guys have to remember is that the reason that players (particularly running backs) taper off at some point is because their bodies have taken too much of a beating over the years and they live with the pain for the rest of their lives. He is leaving while he still has a healthy body, and healthy legs. None of you have a Demarcus Ware knocking you out before you hit the ground, none of you have Jeremiah Trotter going after your knees every Sunday. Tiki played his heart out for us, left it all out on the field, and is choosing to leave at a time when he is still on top. He's not leaving like some other players who have nothing left and you watch them sadly play at a level that is a mere shadow of their former selves.

 

In my mind, Tiki is the greatest Giant we've ever had on the offensive side of the ball, and I will miss seeing him play, wish he would change his mind, but wish him nothing but the best!

 

 

Well put

[randoff]

Just a reminder: (since the retirement thing was such a distraction)

 

*RB Tiki Barber, who finished his career as the Giants' all-time leading rusher with 10,449 yards, Barber rushed for 371 yards and three touchdowns in the final two games of his career.*

[boohyah]

Just a reminder: (since the retirement thing was such a distraction)

 

*RB Tiki Barber, who finished his career as the Giants' all-time leading rusher with 10,449 yards, Barber rushed for 371 yards and three touchdowns in the final two games of his career.*

 

 

Yeah, but imagine what he would have done if he had his heart in the game, what a selfish bastard.

[randoff]

Yeah, but imagine what he would have done if he had his heart in the game, what a selfish bastard.

[Nas]

Ron Dayne...

 

God I hate it when you're right.

[feefifoefum]

God I hate it when you're right.

 

Sorry. I try not to be.