xxi-xxv Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 that's a great line It really is, I have always likes Weis, but if you are Coughlin and you hear that shit and think what you did to get BC going back in the early 90's, what you did in Jax and now in NY you would have to be pissed. Not to overrate Coughlin, but Weis should just shut the fuck up at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 i agree 100%. you can't talk about how you'd do a better job with another coach's player while that coach is on the hot seat, especially if you haven't even coached in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditto Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 I would have been well satisfied with Rivers if we could have kept all of our picks and drafted wisely. You don't need a great qb to win, just a great team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted November 25, 2007 Author Share Posted November 25, 2007 I'd take Big Ben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randoff Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 I'd take Big Ben. None of the above! Well let's say the Giants would have taken Ben. This Offense would have him throwing it 35-40 times a game and is Ben built for that? I say no...Ben is built to manage a game and complete 13-15 passes. Handing off to a RB doesn't make you better. So I wouldn't take Ben for the Giants system. O coordinator would 'force' Ben to do shit that wasn't in Ben's comfort zone. Ben looks better handing the ball off and throwing 20 passes max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted November 25, 2007 Author Share Posted November 25, 2007 None of the above! Well let's say the Giants would have taken Ben. This Offense would have him throwing it 35-40 times a game and is Ben built for that? I say no...Ben is built to manage a game and complete 13-15 passes. Handing off to a RB doesn't make you better. So I wouldn't take Ben for the Giants system. O coordinator would 'force' Ben to do shit that wasn't in Ben's comfort zone. Ben looks better handing the ball off and throwing 20 passes max. ...size, arm strength, scrambling ability, and decision making are better than Eli or Rivers to this point. I know fantasy football is largely bullshit... but every week Ben is putting up 25-40 points and Eli is hitting single digits (aside from week one, where Eli really lit it up). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 In the games I watch, Ben looks pretty good with either game. Not that it matters, Eli is the guy we're going with. Main thing he has to work on is accuracy. Also, when you let the play clock wind down under 2 seconds, defense is going to have a pretty good idea when the snap is coming. He's got to make his reads quicker or just go with the first play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nesta Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 ...size, arm strength, scrambling ability, and decision making are better than Eli or Rivers to this point. I know fantasy football is largely bullshit... but every week Ben is putting up 25-40 points and Eli is hitting single digits (aside from week one, where Eli really lit it up). Whoo fantasy points. Jesus. Ben would do no better in this offense. The few times he has to carry his team (throw more than 30 passes) he usually loses. But hey, fantasy points are what matters in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted November 25, 2007 Author Share Posted November 25, 2007 Whoo fantasy points. Jesus. Ben would do no better in this offense. The few times he has to carry his team (throw more than 30 passes) he usually loses. But hey, fantasy points are what matters in the end. No actually, you're right nesta. Eli is a WAY better quarterback then Ben... in every category... wins, super bowl victories, QB rating, and record as a starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randoff Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 ...size, arm strength, scrambling ability, and decision making are better than Eli or Rivers to this point. .....but every week Ben is putting up 25-40 points and Eli is hitting single digits (aside from week one, where Eli really lit it up). True! And if we had a team like Pittsburgh we'd be consistent too. But like I said before QB is so important esp for us. Accuracy is an issue with Eli. Wobbly throws, overthrowing and underthrowing is a huge problem. I'm a D coordinator and all I have to do is disquise my blitzes, hurry Eli into a wobbly, off the wrong foot throw and I beat the Giants. Take away Toomer, blitz more than the Giants have to protect (to force Shockey to block) and we all know that Plax is the fly pattern guy(only) due to his ankle being hurt. Limits us in what we can do huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nesta Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 No actually, you're right nesta. Eli is a WAY better quarterback then Ben... in every category... wins, super bowl victories, QB rating, and record as a starter. Here you go being a little bitch again. Where did I just say that? I said Ben would do no better in THIS OFFENSE. Ben averages about 15-20 pass attempts per game, and there's a reason for that. Ofcourse you wouldn't know that when you look at nothing but fantasy stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Giant Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 No actually, you're right nesta. Eli is a WAY better quarterback then Ben... in every category... wins, super bowl victories, QB rating, and record as a starter. No offense, and i know this argument is tired. But esta has a point. Eli has been chucking the ball 40 times since he was a rookie. Ben has had a great defense to overcome his learning curve and to keep ben from having to put up 30 points per week. I'm not taking anything away from Ben, but I whole heartedly believe if the roles were reversed, Eli would be thriving in Pit and Ben would be struggling here. Our play calling has never been a benefit to Eli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarence the Blue Puppet Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 I personally think all 3 are highly overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randoff Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Eli has been chucking the ball 40 times since he was a rookie. Ben has had a great defense to overcome his learning curve and to keep ben from having to put up 30 points per week. .....Eli would be thriving in Pit and Ben would be struggling here. Our play calling has never been a benefit to Eli. So let's just say you had a chance to be an O coordinator to work with Eli. Would you have confidence in Eli making 15-20 accurate throws (instead of chucking it 40 times) knowing that Eli is a mechanical mess? Which types of plays would you have Eli making in the pass dept? I guess the question is, can u even trust Eli to throw an accurate pass to Shockey for 10 yds, or a pass to Smith for 11 yds 10 times a game??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarence the Blue Puppet Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 So let's just say you had a chance to be an O coordinator to work with Eli. Would you have confidence in Eli making 15-20 accurate throws (instead of chucking it 40 times) knowing that Eli is a mechanical mess? Which types of plays would you have Eli making in the pass dept? I guess the question is, can u even trust Eli to throw an accurate pass to Shockey for 10 yds, or a pass to Smith for 11 yds 10 times a game??? Was it me or did a lot of Eli's long passes seem to be under thrown? On more than one occasion it appeared that the receivers were waiting for the ball, only to drop it when it was thrown to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted November 25, 2007 Author Share Posted November 25, 2007 I'm not taking anything away from Ben, but I whole heartedly believe if the roles were reversed, Eli would be thriving in Pit and Ben would be struggling here. Our play calling has never been a benefit to Eli. See, that's what I disagree with. Watch Ben throw. His spiral is tight; his mechanics are good. His arm is a goddamned cannon, and he's accurate, especially on the deep ball. And his scrambling ability is totally underrated. He still makes the occasional dumb throw... but not four in a game. We'll never know, but I don't think Eli would be putting up huge numbers in Pittsburgh, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted November 25, 2007 Author Share Posted November 25, 2007 Here you go being a little bitch again. Where did I just say that? I said Ben would do no better in THIS OFFENSE. Ben averages about 15-20 pass attempts per game, and there's a reason for that. Ofcourse you wouldn't know that when you look at nothing but fantasy stats. I don't understand. By "being a little bitch," do you mean doing things, like... spending two hours digging up someone's posts to put in your sig? And I know fantasy stats are meaningless; that's why I prefaced my comments with, "I know fantasy points are largely bullshit." It's obvious that the only stats that mean anything are the ones that compare Eli's career to John Elway's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randoff Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 Was it me or did a lot of Eli's long passes seem to be under thrown? On more than one occasion it appeared that the receivers were waiting for the ball, only to drop it when it was thrown to them. I saw that too. Hence do you think Burress, Toomer, and Shock trust Eli in getting it to them accurately? I don't. ...Eli scares me. Makes me so nervous watching him. Will we get this Eli next week or the same Eli who looked good vs the Falcons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarence the Blue Puppet Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 I saw that too. Hence do you think Burress, Toomer, and Shock trust Eli in getting it to them accurately? I don't. ...Eli scares me. Makes me so nervous watching him. Will we get this Eli next week or the same Eli who looked good vs the Falcons? So we got rid of one Kerry Collins for another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randoff Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 So we got rid of one Kerry Collins for another. Dunno yet? Who knows. But when do you start to say enough is enough IF Eli's mechanics, accuracy and desicion making doesn't improve? Do we give it 100 starts? Do we draft anothe rQB and put fire to Eli's ass? What to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted November 26, 2007 Author Share Posted November 26, 2007 Do we draft anothe rQB and put fire to Eli's ass? What to do. I said it last year and I'll say it again: we had better get Plan B ready just in case... cuz I don't think Jared Lorenzen and Anthony Wright exactly qualify as a "Plan B." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gateb Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 I said it last year and I'll say it again: we had better get Plan B ready just in case... cuz I don't think Jared Lorenzen and Anthony Wright exactly qualify as a "Plan B." Wright and Lorenzen suck, I agree. We should sign an under the radar UFA and work with him if we really feel that badly about Eli. I doubt that happens though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 In the games I watch, Ben looks pretty good with either game. Not that it matters, Eli is the guy we're going with. Main thing he has to work on is accuracy. Also, when you let the play clock wind down under 2 seconds, defense is going to have a pretty good idea when the snap is coming. He's got to make his reads quicker or just go with the first play. That is what I said last week....too much of these audibles in this complex system. Listening to it reminds me of Reeves outdated system with multiple calls and shifts. An experienced veteran QB who has seen everything (and overcome it) could pull it off.....but not someone of Eli's experience level at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nesta Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 I don't understand. By "being a little bitch," do you mean doing things, like... spending two hours digging up someone's posts to put in your sig? And I know fantasy stats are meaningless; that's why I prefaced my comments with, "I know fantasy points are largely bullshit." It's obvious that the only stats that mean anything are the ones that compare Eli's career to John Elway's. No no no. By 'being a little bitch' I mean putting words in my mouth to make your point. Where did I say that Eli is better than Ben? If you know fantasy stats are meaningless, why even bring it up? Let's talk about Madden stats while we're at it. Maybe for someone who's computer challenged like yourself, my sig would take hours, but it took me 10 minutes. It took you two or three weeks to force it down everyone's throat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted November 26, 2007 Author Share Posted November 26, 2007 Where did I say that Eli is better than Ben? Ben would do no better in this offense I think it was there... good thing I wasn't to "computer illiterate" to find it. Whew! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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