mastershake

I mis-spoke. He's 29, turning 30 in december. A 4 year contract isn't unreasonable for that, I think. In the 'Joe Schoen' thread, I have us signing him for 4 yrs $48M (2022 cap hit of $9M)..and he's essentially the only major/big free agent signing for us, the rest are stop gaps or role players, given our cap situation.

Starting Cap Space = $-11M Cuts - Bradberry +$12M - Martinez +$8.5M - Rudolph +$5M - Shepard +$8.5M (Post June 1 cut) - Riley Dixon +$2.8M - Slayton +$2.5M - Ximenes +$1M Trade - Barkely ~+$7.2M Resulting Cap Space = $36-37M Re-Signings ($5M) - C Billy Price, 1 yr $1M - LB Jaylon Smith, 1 yr $1M - DT Austin Johnson, 1 yr $2M - LS Casey Kreiter, 1 yr $1M Free Agent Signings ($26M) - G Laken Tomlinson, 4 yr $48M (structure it so the 2022 cap hit is $9M) - T Brandon Shell, 2 yr $10M. Cap hit $4M - TE Mo Allie-Cox, 2 yr $8M. Cap hit $3M (I figure we need a steady vet at the position, in addition to Kaden Smith) - QB Mariota, Brissett or Trubisky, 2 yr $12M. Cap hit $5M. Alternatively I'd be open to signing Bridgewater to a 2yr $18M deal - WR James Washington, 2 yr $4M (I really think this guy is under-utilized, under rated) - DT Josh Tupou, 1 yr $3M (depth, rotational signing) Draft - #5 T/G Kenyon Green, Texas A&M (For all the hype around Okwonu, I think Okwonu is more developmental, boom/bust, plus likely not a T in this league). - #7 LB Devin Lloyd, Utah - #36 DE/Edge Sam Williams, Ole Miss or Cameron Thomas San Diego State - #67 DT Travis Jones, UConn - #81 G/C Cade Mays, Tennessee - #110 CB Mario Goodrich, Clemson - #146 TE Charle Kolar, Iowa State - #172 RB Tyler Badie, Missouri - #180 WR Bo Melton, Rutgers

Damn. Tomlinson is age 30, will turn 31, so I was hoping we could get him on a deal at like 3 yrs $30 - $36M. But we may have to bump that up to something more like 4 years $50M

Realistically I figure maybe we: - Re sign Billy Price to a 1 year, minimal contract. He played well enough down the stretch to be a low end starter, and he might be one of the few options available given our cap situation and state of our OL anyway. - Bring in one solid starting G or T in free agency (perhaps Laken Tomlinson, or Brandon Scherf, etc). Again given our cap hell, it's the most we can hope for. - One of our two first rounders has to be an OL. We'll need at least two picks in the first 4 rounds being an OL. Personally I'd be okay if we use both 1st rounders on the OL. That gets you - LT Thomas - LG Bredeson - C Billy Price - RG Vet or Premium Draft Pick - RT Vet or Premium Draft Pick Backups for depth/developmental - Lemiuex - Peart - Wes Martin - Draft Pick. If it's a 1st-2nd or even 3rd-4th, they're probably in contention to start at G or C over Price or Bredeson. That should be a serviceable OL.

That's good. The defense hasn't been the problem, and I'm amazed with how relatively well Graham had them doing considering the loss of Blake Martinez and Jabril Peppers, plus several of their key defensive draft picks being injured most of the year (e.g. Robinson, Ellerson, Williams) plus losing Dalvin Tomlinson in the offseason without a suitable replacement.

I'm hoping we can rebuild an OL now, bring in two vets and at least one high draft pick such that any QB will have the protection they need.

Trade Barkley for a 3rd or 4th rounder and be done with it. We need the $7M in cap space to build a competent OL.

I don't get why people are so down on the QBs in this draft. Noone has a crystal ball. We all have no idea how they'll turn out. Going into prior drafts, here's a non exhaustive list of QBs who weren't highly regarded pre-draft and had a lot of question marks, who turned out well so far: - Mahomes - Russell Wilson - Dak Prescott Decent starting qbs, all of whom I'd take over DJ - Derek Carr - Kirk Cousins - Jimmy G - Lamar Jackson - Mac Jones (so far) Versus QBs who were thought to be locks as franchise QBs but weren't - Sam Bradford - James Winston - Marcus Mariota - JeMarcus Russell - Carson Wentz - RG III - Sam Darnold Point is we have no idea. Don't just write off the QBs in this draft class. Don't just assume the 2023 draft will solve our QB issues.

I'm okay giving him a shot, as long as there's a plan B purely for health reasons. I.e. we need a competent backup such as Mariota, or we need a 2nd or 3rd round pick, e.g. Sam Howell. But no, I don't think DJ will successful or prove himself next year, and we had better not pickup his 2023 option this off-season worth around $21M

The good thing about Daboll for next year. He also has OC experience with teams that don't have a franchise QB like the Giants currently. So he'll be able to manage us through a transition year in 2022 where it finally dawns on Giants ownership that Daniel Jones isn't a franchise QB.

Yes, last year of his deal was in 2021 as Seph said. We're paying $4M though in dead cap money for him in 2022, so he continues to haunt us.

Yeah, there are definitely a number of moves that can be made to free up cap space. - We need to consider cutting Bradberry and Martinez to free up money to invest in the OL and cheaper alternatives. These two moves alone will save ~$21M. - Also cut or restructure Shepherd. He can't stay healthy and doesn't warrant a $12.5M cap hit. Saves $5M. - Cut TE Kyle Rudolph to save $5M - Trade Saquon to save ~$7M. Challenge is, if we want to bring in two proven/reliable OL players, we're probably not investing in much else in free agency, other than potential role or stop gap players (e.g. LB Jaylon Smith), so we'd be filling in those positions above through the draft.

So to be clear, this will mean former giants CB Grant Haley, who played few defensive snaps for the Rams, will earn nearly double what ODB makes, lol.

You can find a lot of it for free on YouTube. I was so bored the other day and desperate for good Giants football, I had on the 1986 49ers playoff game in the background, through youtube.

What sealed it for me was the headset debacle. From there, I knew this was a guy who makes excuses, blames others, and is always unprepared (plus who doesn't have control or isn't collaborating with his offensive and defensive coordinators like a real coach needs to). The nail in the coffin was the press conference after the Bears game, and the flowers on top of the coffin was the QB sneak against Washington.

Yep. And to all the people who want to make excuses, that he had injuries and backup QBs the last four to five games. Well, before that he was 4-7 or 4-8. So before the backup QBs came in, he had a ~33% winning percentage (and that was with Toney and Shepherd in a lot of those games). Even down the stretch on offense, he had Barkley, Engram, Golladay, Slayton, Booker, Rudolph; with these players, a competent coach/team could work with even with an atrocious OL and backup QB; at the very least, it wouldn't be the embarrassing clown show we got with Judge. I also say again that Glennon wasn't nearly this bad in prior years when he was on the hapless Jaguars and Bears in recent season. He was an okay backup (yes he lost a ton of games, but his numbers were never this bad). Judge and Co made him look like he doesn't even belong in the NFL at all.

Exactly. We came out of this season with a coach making atrocious decisions (plus bizarre press conferences), and regarding development; we have no idea what we have developing in front of us (minus maybe a handful of players like Thomas, Ojulari, and McKinney), particularly at the QB position. Again not all Judge's fault on the personell, but Judge didn't help one bit. The team regressed.

Exactly. 2022 with Judge would have been just a transitory year, and a delay to get you to the start of the rebuild in 2023. Now we can start the rebuild in 2022. It may not be pretty; there will be a lot cap casualties of young players playing in 2022 I imagine, but it's necessary.

That definitely could have been a key factor as well. When they spoke to these GM candidates, very possible that there was reluctance to simply accept Judge by default. And I bet the GM's likely informed the Maras that it's going to be a process to turn this thing around, implying a possible losing 10 loss season in 2022 while they turn over the roster (plus because we have no stability at the QB position), which to me implies that hey, Joe Judge would be fired then anyway.

I think the Maras must have had conversations with the right people, who, as I eluded to in another thread, essentially explained to them that 2022 is likely to be a 10 loss season anyway, in which case you'll just be firing Joe Judge then anyway, and if you do it then instead of now, you're just pro-longing the inevitable rebuild. So you might as well fire him now and start the rebuild now. I think someone walked the Maras through this kind of scenario.

Badass. I'd take him and Kenyon Green in a heartbeat.

I know, but I bet they're stupid enough to pick up the 5th year option. I mean, it would be on the same level of stupid as keeping Judge and forcing him on the new GM.

But the Mara's may be making that decision through the new GM hire. Just like how they're forcing Judge on the new GM (they won't hire a GM who doesn't accept Judge), I bet they'll force DJ on the new GM as well.

Another key thing too this offseason will be deciding on Daniel Jones's 5th year option, for the 2023 year. If they pick it up, it's likely to be around a $20-22M cap hit in 2023. I really hope they don't. He hasn't earned such a contract, and has proven he's injury prone thus far.